[arin-ppml] Inter-RIR transfer Policy reciprocity with Afrinic_Resource Transfer Policy proposal

Chris Woodfield chris at semihuman.com
Mon Oct 12 13:29:37 EDT 2020

Milton - I don’t think ARIN is being inhospitable. I’d argue that as the NRPM is currently written, the determination on whether or not AFRINIC’s Inter-RIR transfer policy meets the conditions set out in ARIN NRPM 8.4 *as written* is not a determination to be made by ARIN staff, not via community consensus. 

What is germane to the ARIN community here is that if the determination is that the AFRINIC policy is not compatible, but the community disagrees with that determination, then the PDP is available to the community to craft new policy with the goal of resolving whatever incompatibility exists.

A rough analogy would be that ARIN staff is the judiciary, and the ARIN community is the legislature. If a legislature disagrees with a judicial decision interpreting a law as written, the legislature can change the law.



> On Oct 12, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu> wrote:
> John I do not understand why ARIN is being so inhospitable in this case.
> Obviously there is uncertainty and misunderstandings could be avoided if the discussion takes place in the open. Staff determinations also need to be accountable to the ARIN members and community. 
> --MM
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of John Curran
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 10:43 AM
> To: Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>
> Cc: Eddy Kayihura <eddy at afrinic.net>; Taiwo Oyewande <taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Inter-RIR transfer Policy reciprocity with Afrinic_Resource Transfer Policy proposal
> On 12 Oct 2020, at 8:30 AM, Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com <mailto:ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>> wrote:
> For the sake of better understanding, please let me clarify a few things:
> One, it would be arduous and complicated if there is a middleman fugure mediating the conversation between ARIN, AFRINIC, and us the proposal authors. I would love to explore an option of communicating directly. We are also looking forward to the discussion from the ARIN community. 
> Lastly, the version sent by the Afrinic staff to the RPD list is not the latest text draft(shared in this thread), an thus we wish to discuss the newest version with the ARIN community directly.
> Anthony -  
> You indicate that you wish to discuss the proposal with the ARIN community, but you also note that you seek to “inquire about its reciprocity with ARIN” – which is a determination that must be made by ARIN staff. 
> This is likely the source of confusion, since if the topic you’d like to discuss with the ARIN community whether the proposal meets ARIN’s NRPM section 8.4 requirement ("Inter-regional transfers of IPv4 number resources and ASNs may take place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and share reciprocal, compatible needs-based policies.”), it’s probably more likely a discussion with ARIN staff that you seek regarding the compatibility of the proposal.  However, for sake of expediency, let’s proceed with that discussion here on the ppml list, as it’s possible that doing so may lead to related discussions on ARIN number resource policy. 
> In order to get the discussion moving, I’d like to get clarity on two questions regarding your proposed policy – 
> 1. Does the policy impose any conditions on recipient organizations in the ARIN region receiving transfers from AFRINIC-served entities?
> 2. Does the policy impose any conditions on source organizations in the ARIN region doing transfers to AFRINIC-served entities?
> (These two questions are germane because when ARIN is reviewing InterRIR transfer requests, we simply apply the criteria provided in the NRPM – i.e. we do not evaluate requests against any conditions or criteria that may be contained in other RIR policy documents...) 
> Thanks!
> /John
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
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