[arin-ppml] Last Call - Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Reinstatement of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

Wed Oct 28 10:46:33 EDT 2020

This protocol is NOT an end to end protocol, and therefore divides 
addresses into 2 groups:

1) Directly addressable hosts, which are limited to the same 4.3B limit as 
IP4, the protocol used to transmit it, and limits the use of direct 
addresses to aware gateways of the "New IP".

2) Indirectly addressable hosts, which can be addressed ONLY by aware 
hosts and networks, which support does not currently exist, unlike IPv6, 
which does exist and provides for all hosts to be directly addressed.

It really does not solve the lack of addresses in IPv4, as eventually 
even with hacks like this one, the address space will still exhaust, and 
lacks simple end to end addressing of every node.

I love IPv6, as it allows direct addressing much like we had in the early 
days when it was common to give every machine a public address.  Had CIDR 
and NAT not been invented, or the threat of the Chinese Academic network 
exhausting several /8s in order to directly address all of their hosts, we 
would have faced exhaust many years earlier. That network wisely chose to 
go to IPv6 instead and has not faced a lack of addresses.

They discussed the small uptake of IPv6.  However for the networks that I 
manage, IPv6 traffic is approaching 70% of all traffic.  Just turning it 
on in residental gateways has greatly increased the amount of IPv6 
traffic, since most end user devices are already IPv6 ready. Most of the 
top email (gmail and others) support IPv6 MX hosts, and most of the 
streaming services and video conferencing services, and most of the top 
web sites as well support IPv6.

I understand the "if it is not broke, dont fix it" idea.  However it is 
approaching 10 years from that date in February, 2011 when IPv4 exhausted 
when the last 5 /8s were given out in Miami.  It is time to start moving 
toward IPv6 adoption.

I noticed that no exhaust projections regarding the "New IP" were 
discussed.  I suspect that is because it is likely to be less than a 
couple of decades, since the underlying transport is still IPv4.

IPv6 is here NOW.  While many still do not like it, it is currently well 
supported in both hardware and software. I did have to "forklift upgrade" 
some hardware back in 2008 due to the US Federal Requirement to adopt 
IPv6. Even in 2008 everything supports it, including all major operating 
systems. This New IP would have to be developed, tested and then placed 
into operating systems, unlike IPv6 which is already here and currently 
being used by millions of hosts. For most networks, it is simply turning 
it on, or unblocking IPv6, since it is enabled by default.  Considering 
the slow upgrade cycle, it might take a very long time before "New IP" is 
even ready.

Collisions in the RFC1918 space between merged organizations is also a big 
cost that those remaining on IPv4 incur. With IPv6, there is no 
collisions.  Getting rid of these tunnels for intra company communication 
has cured many of my headaches.

While it is clear that there are many here at ARIN that disagree with me, 
I think that ARIN should continue to adopt strong policies to promote 
IPv6, so that we all can further reduce costs by turning off IPv4 sooner 
rather than later. Many hacks including CGnat have large costs that can be 
avoided by such a move, and if timing is right, you might even be able to 
recover some funds by selling your excess IPv4 to those who insist on 
staying IPv4 only.

IPv4 holdouts need to realize that they are passing on costs to many other 
networks that must maintain IPv4 ability because of their choice to avoid 
IPv6.  Everyones cost will drop with the use of only one protocol, and due 
to the address limits in IPv4, it is clear that only IPv6 can be the long 
term answer.  It even reduces costs here at ARIN, as there are fewer 
transactions, since most orgs get their block and are then done for a very 
long time. Transfers alone must take a lot of staff time.

For some I am preaching to the choir. Others are likely mad for again 
bringing up IPv6 which they seem to actively avoid.  It is clear, 
eventually the shear lack of addresses in IPv4 will be seen, and like 
those other conserving measures like CIDR and NAT, even things like this 
will not be able to avoid the hard limit of addresses in IPv4. To the 
holdouts, please consider that you are passing on costs larger than your 
savings to the collective community by your decision to avoid IPv4.

Albert Erdmann
Network Administrator
Paradise On Line Inc.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2020, Mueller, Milton L wrote:

> Here is a balanced discussion of the "New IP" idea (and it is just as idea at this point, not an actual protocol):
>
> Dr. Richard Li, of Futurewei Technologies and key proponent of Huawei’s “New IP” proposal, and Andrew Sullivan, the President and CEO of the Internet Society. IGP’s Dr. Milton Mueller moderates
> https://www.internetgovernance.org/2020/09/23/what-is-the-future-of-internet-architecture/
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Anita N
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 9:52 AM
> To: Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com>
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Last Call - Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Reinstatement of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> I have to chime in (not as part of the AC) that the protocol below is beyond insidious!
>
>> On Oct 23, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Me, (okay, this is after a beer or two tonight) I was just having a
>> discussion with some people the other night, and we were discussing
>> the idea that a new protocol might even roll out at this rate before
>> IPv6 is universally adopted...
>>
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> You aren't the only one discussing a new protocol, one that contains
>> features beyond more addresses which would provide incentive for
>> deployment, as IPv6 notably failed to provide.  Not that I support the attempt below.
>>
>> https://www.internetsociety.org/resources/doc/2020/discussion-paper-an
>> -analy sis-of-the-new-ip-proposal-to-the-itu-t/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
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