[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN 2020-3
scott at solarnetone.org
scott at solarnetone.org
Mon Oct 12 18:41:39 EDT 2020
Thanks for this clarification, David!
On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, David Farmer wrote:
> You don't have to be an ISP to have an ASN, thousands of end-users have ASNs
> assigned to them by ARIN, in ARIN policy the difference between an ISP (AKA
> an LIR) and an end-user is the ability to reassign address space to other
> entities. Since an end-user doesn't assign address space to other entities
> a /44 or even a /48 assignment directly from ARIN makes sense, such a small
> allocation to an ISP makes no sense since they couldn't reassign /48s to a
> sufficiently large number of customers. The point of this policy is to allow
> extremely small ISPs to receive a /40, providing 256 /48s for reassignment,
> which is a viable IPv6 allocation for the very smallest ISPs.
>
> I hope that clarifies things for you.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 4:30 PM <scott at solarnetone.org> wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
>
> > On 10/12/2020 1:29 PM, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
> >> Hi Andrew,
> >>
> >> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
> >>
> >>> The partial returns language is also intended to promote
> best practices
> >>> for IPv6 addressing, that is giving big blocks to allow ISPs
> to assign
> >>> /48s to all customers.
> >>
> >> True, but not all resource holders are operating ISP's for
> public use.
> >> For example, my local City Government has an ASN, and v4
> address
> >> block. They provide no internet services, neither network, to
> eyes,
> >> nor content other than for their own use. This is the case
> with many
> >> resource holders not in the primary business of being an ISP.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> > The organization you describe here sounds more like an
> end-user, but I
> > do understand various organizations have switched from being
> an end-user
> > to ISP and vise-versa over the years for various reasons.
>
> Unfortunately, the only way to have redundancy in your upstream
> while
> keeping connectivity to your network address is to be an ISP by
> this
> definition, even if you offer no network services to other
> organizations.
> This is because an AS is required to perform BGP, which is
> critical to
> maintaining connectivity to a multi-homed network through outage
> of one
> or more connected circuits.
>
> >
> > An end-user organization who would be eligible to obtain an
> /48 under
> > 6.5.8 of the NRPM.
> >
> >https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/nrpm/#6-5-8-direct-assignments-from
> -arin-to-end-user-organizations
> >
> > This draft policy ARIN-2020-3 is specifically related to ISPs.
>
> I believe you are making a misclassification here. Once these
> organizations have AS and/or address resources, they are
> considered an ISP
> for these purposes, despite their end use case.
>
> Scott
>
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>> On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
> >>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder what percentage of 2x-small Resource holders have
> a /24 of
> >>>> v4, and would otherwise qualify for 3x-small status but for
> their v6
> >>>> allocations, and what percentage of all ASs registered with
> ARIN that
> >>>> represents. This represents the the total who could
> "downgrade" to a
> >>>> nano-allocation, were that a option. It would be easy to
> derive from
> >>>> that the maximum effect on ARIN's finances, if they all
> chose to take
> >>>> that option.
> >>>>
> >>>> Scott
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Chris Woodfield wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Agreed. To be clear, I did not intend for my question to
> imply that
> >>>>> the goal of keeping the proposal revenue-neutral was in
> any way
> >>>>> dishonorable - ARIN’s financial stability is obviously in
> the
> >>>>> community’s best interests. But we should have informed
> consent as to
> >>>>> how that stability is achieved, and as such, clarifying
> the intention
> >>>>> of the clause is helpful.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -C
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 11:06 AM, scott at solarnetone.org
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Chris,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Indeed. To be fair, I think the price is fair for value
> received,
> >>>>>> speaking as a 2x-small ISP with a /36. I was able to
> lower my
> >>>>>> recurring costs and increase my available address pool by
> bringing
> >>>>>> up an AS at the 2x-small rate. Allowing the smallest
> ISPs to
> >>>>>> implement IPv6 without additional financial cost seems a
> prudent way
> >>>>>> to overcome barriers to adoption.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Scott
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020, Chris Woodfield wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks Andrew, and good catch - both Scott and I missed
> that
> >>>>>>> clause, obviously. It appears that this is in place in
> order to
> >>>>>>> meet the stated goal of this proposal being
> revenue-neutral for
> >>>>>>> ARIN? If so, it would be great to clarify so that
> community members
> >>>>>>> can make a more informed evaluation as to whether or not
> to support
> >>>>>>> the clause. If there are other justifications for the
> clause’s
> >>>>>>> presence, I’d be interested to hear them.
> >>>>>> 2~>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -C
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Andrew Dul
> <andrew.dul at quark.net>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The current draft policy text disallows returns to
> lower than a
> >>>>>>>> /36, so
> >>>>>>>> I would say that organization which took a /36 would
> not be
> >>>>>>>> permitted to
> >>>>>>>> go down to a /40.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Partial returns of any IPv6 allocation that results in
> less than
> >>>>>>>> a /36
> >>>>>>>> of holding are not permitted regardless of the ISP’s
> current or
> >>>>>>>> former
> >>>>>>>> IPv4 number resource holdings."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Andrew
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 10/9/2020 2:04 PM, Chris Woodfield wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Scott,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Given that ARIN utilizes a sparse allocation strategy
> for IPv6
> >>>>>>>>> resources (in my organization’s case, we could go from
> a /32 to a
> >>>>>>>>> /25 without renumbering), IMO it would not be
> unreasonable for
> >>>>>>>>> the allocation to be adjusted down simply by changing
> the mask
> >>>>>>>>> and keeping the /36 or /32 unallocated until the
> sparse
> >>>>>>>>> allocations are exhausted. Any resources numbered
> outside the new
> >>>>>>>>> /40 would need to be renumbered, to be sure, but
> that’s most
> >>>>>>>>> likely less work than a complete renumbering.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> That said, I’ll leave it up to Registration Services
> to provide a
> >>>>>>>>> definitive answer.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -C
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I am in favor of this draft, and am curious as to
> how resource
> >>>>>>>>>>> holders who were not dissuaded by the fee increase
> will be
> >>>>>>>>>>> impacted by the policy change. While they indeed
> have more
> >>>>>>>>>>> address space than /40, they may also not need the
> additional
> >>>>>>>>>>> address space. Some might prefer the
> nano-allocation given the
> >>>>>>>>>>> lower cost. Will they be required to change
> allocations, and
> >>>>>>>>>>> renumber, in order to return to 3x-small status and
> associated
> >>>>>>>>>>> rate?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Scott Johnson
> >>>>>>>>>>> SolarNetOne, Inc.
> >>>>>>>>>>> AS32639
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
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> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
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