[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN 2020-3

Mon Oct 12 17:30:15 EDT 2020

Andrew,

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:

> On 10/12/2020 1:29 PM, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
>>
>>> The partial returns language is also intended to promote best practices
>>> for IPv6 addressing, that is giving big blocks to allow ISPs to assign
>>> /48s to all customers.
>>
>> True, but not all resource holders are operating ISP's for public use.
>> For example, my local City Government has an ASN, and v4 address
>> block. They provide no internet services, neither network, to eyes,
>> nor content other than for their own use.  This is the case with many
>> resource holders not in the primary business of being an ISP.
>>
>> Scott
>>
> The organization you describe here sounds more like an end-user, but I
> do understand various organizations have switched from being an end-user
> to ISP and vise-versa over the years for various reasons. 

Unfortunately, the only way to have redundancy in your upstream while 
keeping connectivity to your network address is to be an ISP by this 
definition, even if you offer no network services to other organizations.
This is because an AS is required to perform BGP, which is critical to 
maintaining connectivity to a multi-homed network through outage of one 
or more connected circuits.

>
> An end-user organization who would be eligible to obtain an /48 under
> 6.5.8 of the NRPM.  
>
> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/nrpm/#6-5-8-direct-assignments-from-arin-to-end-user-organizations
>
> This draft policy ARIN-2020-3 is specifically related to ISPs.

I believe you are making a misclassification here.  Once these 
organizations have AS and/or address resources, they are considered an ISP 
for these purposes, despite their end use case.

Scott

>
>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On 10/12/2020 12:26 PM, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what percentage of 2x-small Resource holders have a /24 of
>>>> v4, and would otherwise qualify for 3x-small status but for their v6
>>>> allocations, and what percentage of all ASs registered with ARIN that
>>>> represents.  This represents the the total who could "downgrade" to a
>>>> nano-allocation, were that a option.  It would be easy to derive from
>>>> that the maximum effect on ARIN's finances, if they all chose to take
>>>> that option.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020, Chris Woodfield wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Agreed. To be clear, I did not intend for my question to imply that
>>>>> the goal of keeping the proposal revenue-neutral was in any way
>>>>> dishonorable - ARIN’s financial stability is obviously in the
>>>>> community’s best interests. But we should have informed consent as to
>>>>> how that stability is achieved, and as such, clarifying the intention
>>>>> of the clause is helpful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> -C
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2020, at 11:06 AM, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed.  To be fair, I think the price is fair for value received,
>>>>>> speaking as a 2x-small ISP with a /36.  I was able to lower my
>>>>>> recurring costs and increase my available address pool by bringing
>>>>>> up an AS at the 2x-small rate.  Allowing the smallest ISPs to
>>>>>> implement IPv6 without additional financial cost seems a prudent way
>>>>>> to overcome barriers to adoption.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020, Chris Woodfield wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Andrew, and good catch - both Scott and I missed that
>>>>>>> clause, obviously. It appears that this is in place in order to
>>>>>>> meet the stated goal of this proposal being revenue-neutral for
>>>>>>> ARIN? If so, it would be great to clarify so that community members
>>>>>>> can make a more informed evaluation as to whether or not to support
>>>>>>> the clause. If there are other justifications for the clause’s
>>>>>>> presence, I’d be interested to hear them.
>>>>>> 2~>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -C
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The current draft policy text disallows returns to lower than a
>>>>>>>> /36, so
>>>>>>>> I would say that organization which took a /36 would not be
>>>>>>>> permitted to
>>>>>>>> go down to a /40.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Partial returns of any IPv6 allocation that results in less than
>>>>>>>> a /36
>>>>>>>> of holding are not permitted regardless of the ISP’s current or
>>>>>>>> former
>>>>>>>> IPv4 number resource holdings."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/9/2020 2:04 PM, Chris Woodfield wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given that ARIN utilizes a sparse allocation strategy for IPv6
>>>>>>>>> resources (in my organization’s case, we could go from a /32 to a
>>>>>>>>> /25 without renumbering), IMO it would not be unreasonable for
>>>>>>>>> the allocation to be adjusted down simply by changing the mask
>>>>>>>>> and keeping the /36 or /32 unallocated until the sparse
>>>>>>>>> allocations are exhausted. Any resources numbered outside the new
>>>>>>>>> /40 would need to be renumbered, to be sure, but that’s most
>>>>>>>>> likely less work than a complete renumbering.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That said, I’ll leave it up to Registration Services to provide a
>>>>>>>>> definitive answer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -C
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, scott at solarnetone.org wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am in favor of this draft, and am curious as to how resource
>>>>>>>>>>> holders who were not dissuaded by the fee increase will be
>>>>>>>>>>> impacted by the policy change. While they indeed have more
>>>>>>>>>>> address space than /40, they may also not need the additional
>>>>>>>>>>> address space.  Some might prefer the nano-allocation given the
>>>>>>>>>>> lower cost.  Will they be required to change allocations, and
>>>>>>>>>>> renumber, in order to return to 3x-small status and associated
>>>>>>>>>>> rate?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>> SolarNetOne, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>> AS32639
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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