[arin-ppml] Inter-RIR transfer Policy reciprocity with Afrinic_Resource Transfer Policy proposal

[Anthony Ubah]

Dear Jordi,

Hope you’re well. It’s been a while since our last call.

Regarding our conversation via zoom meeting platform, I remember that you
showed support to our proposal, which we were very honoured.
May I know what possibly changed your mind?

As you know, the conclusion made by Madhvi on AFRINIC RPD was based on
previous versions instead and not the latest version, which we have also
duly sent to RPD mailing list.

It will be great if I can understand your thoughts on this.

*Best Regards,*

*UBAH ANTHONY*

E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:37 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The issue is a much bigger one … let me try to summarize.
>
>
>
> There are 3 different policy proposals for Inter-RIR transfers in AFRINIC,
> the older one is from myself. Other people decided to submit other
> proposals afterwards, when this one was already being discussed and being
> adapted to the inputs from the community and close to consensus.
>
>
>
> I submitted this policy proposal, almost at the same time as in LACNIC
> (which reached consensus and is already implemented), and at that time I
> learned the need about reciprocity. I checked that working with the RIRs
> staff (not in the public lists as it is, in my opinion an unnecessary
> noise) and it was done also by LACNIC.
>
>
>
> Actually, to know if there is reciprocity there is no need to check with
> the staff, but of course the staff of each RIR provides an “authoritative
> confirmation”.
>
>
>
> To check if there is reciprocity you need to verify:
>
>    1. Are there conditions on transfers from AFRINIC to recipients in
>    each other RIR? In that case, are those “compatible”?
>    2. Are there conditions on transfers from each other RIR to AFRINIC?
>    In that case, are those “compatible”?
>
>
>
> If I read my own policy and ARIN policy, being objective (not as an
> author), I can see if both of those questions are answered as “compatible”.
>
>
>
> For example, I can’t imposse the condition to legacy resources transfered
> from AFRINIC to ARIN to lose the legacy status, because that’s against ARIN
> policy. Instead is fine if I say “incomming – to AFRINIC – transferred
> legacy resrourses, will no longer be regarded as legacy”, because the
> condition only apply if the transfer is AFRINIC to AFRINIC (intra-RIR) or
> from any RIR to AFRINIC.
>
>
>
> What is clear is that AFRINIC policies can’t impose condicions on **any**
> other RIR policies.
>
>
>
> So I think that authors can do this by themselves, and ask either directly
> to the staff or their own RIR staff to clarify that, but not in the list,
> because it is unnecesary noise and not related to the purpose of each RIR
> policy discussion list, which is discussing the proposals on that region,
> not asking questions regarded to other regions proposals.
>
>
>
> I already told, many times, the first one over year ago to the other 2
> proposal authors that they need to do their job or ask the staff for help,
> and also told them “your proposals are incompatible/non-reciprocal at least
> with ARIN, so they lose their goal, because ARIN is the major donor of
> rerources to other regions”.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 12/10/20 19:16, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Mueller, Milton L" <
> arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net en nombre de milton at gatech.edu> escribió:
>
>
>
> John I do not understand why ARIN is being so inhospitable in this case.
>
> Obviously there is uncertainty and misunderstandings could be avoided if
> the discussion takes place in the open. Staff determinations also need to
> be accountable to the ARIN members and community.
>
> --MM
>
>
>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *John Curran
> *Sent:* Monday, October 12, 2020 10:43 AM
> *To:* Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Eddy Kayihura <eddy at afrinic.net>; Taiwo Oyewande <
> taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Inter-RIR transfer Policy reciprocity with
> Afrinic_Resource Transfer Policy proposal
>
>
>
> On 12 Oct 2020, at 8:30 AM, Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For the sake of better understanding, please let me clarify a few things:
>
>
>
> One, it would be arduous and complicated if there is a middleman fugure
> mediating the conversation between ARIN, AFRINIC, and us the proposal
> authors. I would love to explore an option of communicating directly. We
> are also looking forward to the discussion from the ARIN community.
>
>
>
> Lastly, the version sent by the Afrinic staff to the RPD list is not the
> latest text draft(shared in this thread), an thus we wish to discuss the
> newest version with the ARIN community directly.
>
>
>
> Anthony -
>
>
>
> You indicate that you wish to discuss the proposal with the ARIN
> community, but you also note that you seek to “inquire about its
> reciprocity with ARIN” – which is a determination that must be made by ARIN
> staff.
>
>
>
> This is likely the source of confusion, since if the topic you’d like to
> discuss with the ARIN community whether the proposal meets ARIN’s NRPM
> section 8.4 requirement ("Inter-regional transfers of IPv4 number resources
> and ASNs may take place only via RIRs who agree to the transfer and share
> reciprocal, compatible needs-based policies.”), it’s probably more likely a
> discussion with ARIN staff that you seek regarding the compatibility of the
> proposal.  However, for sake of expediency, let’s proceed with that
> discussion here on the ppml list, as it’s possible that doing so may lead
> to related discussions on ARIN number resource policy.
>
>
>
> In order to get the discussion moving, I’d like to get clarity on two
> questions regarding your proposed policy –
>
>
>
> *1. Does the policy impose any conditions on recipient organizations in
> the ARIN region receiving transfers from AFRINIC-served entities?*
>
>
>
> *2. Does the policy impose any conditions on source organizations in the
> ARIN region doing transfers to AFRINIC-served entities?*
>
>
>
> (These two questions are germane because when ARIN is reviewing InterRIR
> transfer requests, we simply apply the criteria provided in the NRPM – i.e.
> we do not evaluate requests against any conditions or criteria that may be
> contained in other RIR policy documents...)
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> /John
>
>
>
> John Curran
>
> President and CEO
>
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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