[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of OrganizIt reaations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

Brandt, Jason jason.brandt at pearlcompanies.com
Mon Jul 20 10:43:12 EDT 2020


I disagree on the usage of "fair".  The policy 2019-16 may have been applied fairly based on the verbiage stated within.  However, having entities' requests approved under the previous rules and policies, and allowing these entities/requests onto the wait list in accordance with those rules, then subsequently removing them from the wait list is not fair.  Those requests went through the process and were allowed to proceed, and therefore should be grandfathered and remain on the wait list until such time that the request can be fulfilled.  Moving forward, it makes sense to not approve requests of this nature and apply the limitations put forward in 2019-16, but it is certainly unfair to apply those standards to requests that were already approved under the previous standards.  Please strongly consider approving policy ARIN-2020-2


Jason 
Brandt 
Senior Systems Engineer
Pearl Companies | 1200 E Glen Ave Peoria Heights, IL 61616
P: 309.679.0184 F: 309.688.5444 E: jason.brandt at pearlcompanies.com
www.pearlcompanies.com | Insurance - Technology - Automotive

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From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of David Farmer via ARIN-PPML
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 09:29
To: Tom Pruitt <tpruitt at stratusnet.com>
Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of OrganizIt reaations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16


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I have to disagree, the implementation of 2019-16 was fair and impartial. There was a general criterion that was applied, it wasn't overly specific, such that it only targeted a single or small group of specific organizations. Yes, the selection of /20 was mostly arbitrary, but any number picked would have been mostly arbitrary. The /18 that this policy proposes is mostly arbitrary as well. The specific numbers are a judgment call, both in 2019-16 and this policy. Nevertheless, innocent organizations were impacted by the implementation of 2019-16, and that is regrettable, unfortunate, and frankly, it sucks, but that doesn't me it was unfair.
Further, the alternative implementation, that you propose would have been unfair because the organizations with a /20 or less of total holdings, but requesting more than a /22, would qualify under the policy in 2019-16 if they simply reduced their request. Therefore, requiring them to be removed from the waiting list and to reapply would have been unnecessarily bureaucratic and petty, with the only effect being that they lost their place on the waiting list. Allowing these entities to reduce their request seems an eminently fair way do deal with that situation.
Personally, I like and support the concept of mitigating at least some of the impact on innocent organizations by allowing those with up to and including a /18 of total holdings back on the list for up to a /22. I'll note that this specific idea didn't come up during the discussions leading up to 2019-16 or immediately following the implementation of it.  However, while I support mitigating the effects of 2019-16 on several innocent organizations, I most strenuously object to referring to the implementation of 2019-16 as unfair. The implementation of 2019-16 was both fair and impartial, even though the impact on some organizations was undesirable, it was nevertheless fair.

Thanks.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:34 PM Tom Pruitt <tpruitt at stratusnet.com<mailto:tpruitt at stratusnet.com>> wrote:
The organizations this draft policy would affect  had qualified for space before 2019-16 (limiting space to a /20 and limiting a max request to a /22) was implemented.  The implementation of the policy removed the organizations that had over a /20, but allowed organizations with less than that who wanted more than a /22 to adjust their request and remain on the list.  If all organizations who didn't fit the new criteria  with their existing requests were removed then it would have been applied fairly and equal, but that isn't what happened.

This proposal actually equalizes the implementation of 2019-16.


Yes the problem is the lack of IPv6 deployment, I don't think anyone can argue that.

Thanks,
Tom Pruitt
Network Engineer
Stratus Networks

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-----Original Message-----
From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of Fernando Frediani
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:01 AM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

What is the justification to give organization who already have some reasonable space to work with, more space in current times ?

Everybody is suffering from the same problem of IPv4 scarcity and that affects all equally. If we have already a policy that limits on /20 it is for a reason, a fair reason by the way. So why are we going to bend it in this case in the other direction ?
I see this type of proposal privileging just a few rather than been equalized to all others.

Therefore I keep opposed to it.

Fernando

On 17/07/2020 12:24, Steven Ryerse via ARIN-PPML wrote:
> +1
>
>
> Steven Ryerse
> President
>
> sryerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:sryerse at eclipse-networks.com> | C: 770.656.1460
> 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of Mike Burns
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> To: hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> I support the policy as written and I do not believe we should prioritize small holders over large holders.
> Large holders pay higher fees but I don't see the rationale behind favoring small  holders on the wait list.
> All holders should be on equal footing, we never had a new-entrant reserve at ARIN and I think if that is something we want to do, it should be discussed openly and not inserted through the back door of waitlist policy.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of
> hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:59 AM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> I am also against this proposal.
>
> If we allow holders of larger blocks back onto the list, we take away blocks that should go to smaller holders.
>
> The waiting list is NOT a lottery to be "won", and I think the policy should not change.
>
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
>
>> I do not support the reintroduction of organizations onto the
>> wait-list who were removed due to having existing address holdings
>> larger than a /20.  Being on the wait-list was never a guarantee that
>> you would receive space.  The AC had to balance the various elements
>> of
> block size and organizations who would be eligible to receive space under the updated policy and we were aware that the rules as implemented would prevent some organizations on the wait-list from receiving blocks going forward.
>> Speaking only for myself, not the AC
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 6/19/2020 11:25 AM, Alyssa Moore wrote:
>>        Hi folks,
>>
>>        There was some great discussion of this policy proposal at ARIN45.
> We hear a wide range of views including:
>>         1. Don't grandfather organizations. The new waitlist policy
>> is
> sound.
>>         2. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should be
> eligible for their original request size (even if it exceeds the new
> limit
>>            of a /22).
>>         3. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should
> remain eligible if their holdings exceed a /20 OR a /18. The draft
> policy
>>            under discussion specifies a /18 total holdings for
> grandfathered orgs, while the current waitlist policy (2019-16) specifies a /20.
>>         4. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should be
> eligible regardless of their total holdings because that was not a
>>            restriction of the policy under which they originally
>> qualified
> for the waitlist.
>>         There was general support to continue finessing this draft.
>> If you
> have views on the above noted parameters, please make them known here.
>> For reference:
>>
>> Old waitlist policy
>>   1. Requester specifies smallest block they'd be willing to accept,
>> equal
> to or larger than the applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in
> ARIN
>>      policy.
>>   2. Did not place a limit on the total existing IP address holdings
>> of a
> party eligible for the waitlist.
>>   3. Made resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>> until after a period of 12 months. New Waitlist Policy  1. Limits the
>> size of block ARIN can issue on the waitlist to a /22.
>>   2. Places a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of a
>> party
> eligible for the waitlist at a /20 or less.
>>   3. Makes resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>> until after a period of 60 months.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alyssa
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:35 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu<mailto:farmer at umn.edu>> wrote:
>>        I support this policy and believe the policy development
>> process is
> the proper place to handle this issue. However, this policy seems to
>>        be implementable as a one-time policy directive to ARIN Staff.
>> Once
> implemented, by putting the effected organizations back on the waiting
>>        list, it seems unnecessary to memorialized the text in the
>> NRPM, it
> would immediately become extraneous and potentially confusing to
>>        future readers of the NRPM.
>> Therefore, I would like to recommend the Policy Statement not be
>> added to the NRPM upon its implementation. I believe this to be
>> consistent with
> the intent of the policy.  Otherwise, does ARIN Staff have procedural advice on how best to handle what seems like a one-time directive?
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM ARIN <info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net>> wrote:
>>
>>        Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
>> Removed
> from
>>        Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>>
>>        Problem Statement:
>>
>>        The implementation of the ARIN-2019-16 Advisory Council
> Recommendation
>>        Regarding NRPM 4.1.8: Unmet Requests caused some organizations to be
>>        removed from the waiting list that were approved under the old
> policy?s
>>        eligibility criteria. These organizations should have been
> grandfathered
>>        when the waitlist was reopened to allow them to receive an
> allocation of
>>        IPv4 up to the new policy?s maximum size constraint of a /22.
>>
>>        Policy Statement: Update NRPM Section 4.1.8 as follows:
>>
>>        Add section 4.1.8.3 (temporary language in the NRPM to remain
>> until
> the
>>        policy objective is achieved)
>>
>>        Restoring organizations to the waitlist
>>
>>        ARIN will restore organizations that were removed from the
>> waitlist
> at
>>        the adoption of ARIN-2019-16 to their previous position if
>> their
> total
>>        holdings of IPv4 address space amounts to a /18 or less. The maximum
>>        size aggregate that a reinstated organization may qualify for
>> is a
> /22.
>>        All restored organizations extend their 2 year approval by
>> [number
> of
>>        months between July 2019 and implementation of new policy].
>> Any
> requests
>>        met through a transfer will be considered fulfilled and
>> removed from
> the
>>        waiting list.
>>
>>        Comments:
>>
>>        Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>
>>        Anything Else: While attending ARIN 44 and discussing this
>> with
> other
>>        community members the vast majority indicated that they agreed
>> that
> some
>>        organizations were treated unfairly. This proposal is a remedy.
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        ARIN-PPML
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>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu<mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> Networking &
>> Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN
>> 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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--
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu<mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu>
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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