[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: / Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

Hugh Downer hugh.downer at cwc.com
Fri Jul 17 15:18:55 EDT 2020


I am in support of the policy .


Hugh Downer
Network Engineer Core Data
Hugh.Downer at cwc.com<mailto:Hugh.Downer at cwc.com>
Office : 1-786-274-8633 | Mob: 1-786-479-7133
1631 NW 136th Ave, Building F, Sunrise, FL, 33323
www.lla.com<http://www.lla.com/>
[cid:image001.png at 01D65C4D.94879900]

From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Rudolph Daniel
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 3:17 PM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: / Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

★ External Email ★
________________________________
I am in support of the policy as written. However, what is the rationale for /18 instead of /20 criteria?

Rudi Daniel
danielcharles consulting<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kingstown-Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines/DanielCharles/153611257984774>
1 784 430 9235
........ict4d........




On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:21 PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering ofOrganizations
      Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
      (=?utf-8?B?SGF5ZWUgQm9raGFyaQ==?=)
   2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
      Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16 (Mike Burns)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:15:45 -0400
From: "=?utf-8?B?SGF5ZWUgQm9raGFyaQ==?=" <bokhari at cronomagic.com<mailto:bokhari at cronomagic.com>>
To: "=?utf-8?B?RmVybmFuZG8gRnJlZGlhbmk=?=" <fhfrediani at gmail.com<mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>>,
        "=?utf-8?B?YXJpbi1wcG1s?=" <arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml]  Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering
        ofOrganizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of
        ARIN-2019-16
Message-ID: <202007171215443079347 at cronomagic.com<mailto:202007171215443079347 at cronomagic.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

Organizations in the waiting list went to ARIN's vetting process before they got into waiting list, so justification already exist,

Regards
Hayee Bokhari
514-341-1579 Ex 212
800-427-6012 Ex 212
bokhari at cronomagic.com<mailto:bokhari at cronomagic.com>
http://www.cronomagic.com

>What is the justification to give organization who already have some
>reasonable space to work with, more space in current times ?
>
>Everybody is suffering from the same problem of IPv4 scarcity and that
>affects all equally. If we have already a policy that limits on /20 it
>is for a reason, a fair reason by the way. So why are we going to bend
>it in this case in the other direction ?
>I see this type of proposal privileging just a few rather than been
>equalized to all others.
>
>Therefore I keep opposed to it.
>
>Fernando
>
>On 17/07/2020 12:24, Steven Ryerse via ARIN-PPML wrote:
>> +1
>>
>>
>> Steven Ryerse
>> President
>>
>> sryerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:sryerse at eclipse-networks.com> | C: 770.656.1460
>> 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of Mike Burns
>> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:59 AM
>> To: hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>>
>> I support the policy as written and I do not believe we should prioritize small holders over large holders.
>> Large holders pay higher fees but I don't see the rationale behind favoring small  holders on the wait list.
>> All holders should be on equal footing, we never had a new-entrant reserve at ARIN and I think if that is something we want to do, it should be discussed openly and not inserted through the back door of waitlist policy.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:59 AM
>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>>
>> I am also against this proposal.
>>
>> If we allow holders of larger blocks back onto the list, we take away blocks that should go to smaller holders.
>>
>> The waiting list is NOT a lottery to be "won", and I think the policy should not change.
>>
>> Albert Erdmann
>> Network Administrator
>> Paradise On Line Inc.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
>>
>>> I do not support the reintroduction of organizations onto the
>>> wait-list who were removed due to having existing address holdings
>>> larger than a /20.? Being on the wait-list was never a guarantee that
>>> you would receive space.? The AC had to balance the various elements
>>> of
>> block size and organizations who would be eligible to receive space under the updated policy and we were aware that the rules as implemented would prevent some organizations on the wait-list from receiving blocks going forward.
>>> Speaking only for myself, not the AC
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> On 6/19/2020 11:25 AM, Alyssa Moore wrote:
>>>        Hi folks,
>>>
>>>        There was some great discussion of this policy proposal at ARIN45.
>> We hear a wide range of views including:
>>>         1. Don't grandfather organizations. The new waitlist policy is
>> sound.
>>>         2. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>>> should be
>> eligible for their original request size (even if it exceeds the new limit
>>>            of a /22).
>>>         3. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>>> should
>> remain eligible if their holdings exceed a /20 OR a /18. The draft policy
>>>            under discussion specifies a?/18 total holdings for
>> grandfathered orgs, while the current waitlist policy (2019-16) specifies a /20.
>>>         4. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>>> should be
>> eligible regardless of their total holdings because that was not a
>>>            restriction of the policy under which they originally
>>> qualified
>> for the waitlist.
>>>        ?There was general support to continue finessing this draft. If
>>> you
>> have views on the above noted parameters, please make them known here.
>>> For reference:
>>>
>>> Old waitlist policy
>>>   1. Requester specifies smallest block they'd be willing to accept,
>>> equal
>> to or larger than the applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in ARIN
>>>      policy.
>>>   2. Did not place a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of
>>> a
>> party eligible for the waitlist.
>>>   3. Made resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>>> until after a period of 12 months. New Waitlist Policy  1. Limits the
>>> size of block ARIN can issue on the waitlist to a /22.
>>>   2. Places a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of a
>>> party
>> eligible for the waitlist at a /20 or less.
>>>   3. Makes resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>>> until after a period of 60 months.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Alyssa
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:35 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu<mailto:farmer at umn.edu>> wrote:
>>>        I support this policy and believe the policy development process
>>> is
>> the proper place to handle this issue. However, this policy seems to
>>>        be implementable?as a one-time policy directive to ARIN Staff.
>>> Once
>> implemented, by putting the effected?organizations?back on the waiting
>>>        list, it seems unnecessary to memorialized the text in the NRPM,
>>> it
>> would immediately become extraneous and potentially?confusing to
>>>        future readers of the NRPM.
>>> Therefore, I would like?to recommend the Policy Statement?not be added
>>> to the NRPM upon its implementation. I believe this to be?consistent
>>> with
>> the intent of the policy.? Otherwise, does ARIN Staff have procedural advice on how best to handle what seems like a one-time directive?
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM ARIN <info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>        Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
>>> Removed
>> from
>>>        Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>>>
>>>        Problem Statement:
>>>
>>>        The implementation of the ARIN-2019-16 Advisory Council
>> Recommendation
>>>        Regarding NRPM 4.1.8: Unmet Requests caused some organizations to be
>>>        removed from the waiting list that were approved under the old
>> policy?s
>>>        eligibility criteria. These organizations should have been
>> grandfathered
>>>        when the waitlist was reopened to allow them to receive an
>> allocation of
>>>        IPv4 up to the new policy?s maximum size constraint of a /22.
>>>
>>>        Policy Statement: Update NRPM Section 4.1.8 as follows:
>>>
>>>        Add section 4.1.8.3 (temporary language in the NRPM to remain
>>> until
>> the
>>>        policy objective is achieved)
>>>
>>>        Restoring organizations to the waitlist
>>>
>>>        ARIN will restore organizations that were removed from the
>>> waitlist
>> at
>>>        the adoption of ARIN-2019-16 to their previous position if their
>> total
>>>        holdings of IPv4 address space amounts to a /18 or less. The maximum
>>>        size aggregate that a reinstated organization may qualify for is
>>> a
>> /22.
>>>        All restored organizations extend their 2 year approval by
>>> [number
>> of
>>>        months between July 2019 and implementation of new policy]. Any
>> requests
>>>        met through a transfer will be considered fulfilled and removed
>>> from
>> the
>>>        waiting list.
>>>
>>>        Comments:
>>>
>>>        Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>>
>>>        Anything Else: While attending ARIN 44 and discussing this with
>> other
>>>        community members the vast majority indicated that they agreed
>>> that
>> some
>>>        organizations were treated unfairly. This proposal is a remedy.
>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>        ARIN-PPML
>>>        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>>        the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>>>        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>        https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,itejYWK1neA4HwQI2654uD6T84LDr-jtyvegBUSRLaqI3i7cGDsXGSLO9kZFAeEqibHLpNp9IQUPINbrQtts-4t2a9DQNRIijWuYbVTpZdvZJI2YmIU7zQMg&typo=1
>>>        Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ===============================================
>>> David Farmer? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Email:farmer at umn.edu<mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> Networking &
>>> Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University
>>> of Minnesota
>>> 2218 University Ave SE? ? ? ? Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN
>>> 55414-3029?? Cell: 612-812-9952
>>> ===============================================
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
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>>> nLV4b0vI3AnQPQ,,&typo=1 Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience
>>> any issues.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ARIN-PPML
>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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>>> ailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,RsBXYYW2wGypb0Y4GbeHTbKFC2827Z3jsp
>>> at1aezQl0yTqcY6d2pTdFdOAraqUCnPZ-okcO1-ObFc2thTsKxGhJ1eTCN_Cv8UpPoW80d
>>> 6gOeCMy96nbc8z4g0yY0&typo=1 Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you
>>> experience any issues.
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>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-PPML
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,PZT3k6xZlfRBghEBxxufd4mu2Ve_KsVjNFFbz6LOCh9lpSIRtyNyDCvryXvevPimoqYvm4gDqykjaXQTjrj8V6QM-AY3-lYKC-1oXXBA-awSsCEN&typo=1
>> Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.
>> _______________________________________________
>> ARIN-PPML
>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.
>_______________________________________________
>ARIN-PPML
>You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:20:49 -0400
From: "Mike Burns" <mike at iptrading.com<mailto:mike at iptrading.com>>
To: "'Fernando Frediani'" <fhfrediani at gmail.com<mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>>,       <arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
        Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
Message-ID: <009201d65c56$3c1d14d0$b4573e70$@iptrading.com<http://iptrading.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

Hi Fernando,

What is the justification to favor small holders over large holders?
As you say, scarcity affects all equally.
The bending of policy occurred behind the scenes in an Advisory Council meeting.

Regards,
Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of Fernando Frediani
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:01 PM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

What is the justification to give organization who already have some reasonable space to work with, more space in current times ?

Everybody is suffering from the same problem of IPv4 scarcity and that affects all equally. If we have already a policy that limits on /20 it is for a reason, a fair reason by the way. So why are we going to bend it in this case in the other direction ?
I see this type of proposal privileging just a few rather than been equalized to all others.

Therefore I keep opposed to it.

Fernando

On 17/07/2020 12:24, Steven Ryerse via ARIN-PPML wrote:
> +1
>
>
> Steven Ryerse
> President
>
> sryerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:sryerse at eclipse-networks.com> | C: 770.656.1460
> 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of Mike Burns
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> To: hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>; arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> I support the policy as written and I do not believe we should prioritize small holders over large holders.
> Large holders pay higher fees but I don't see the rationale behind favoring small  holders on the wait list.
> All holders should be on equal footing, we never had a new-entrant reserve at ARIN and I think if that is something we want to do, it should be discussed openly and not inserted through the back door of waitlist policy.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>> On Behalf Of
> hostmaster at uneedus.com<mailto:hostmaster at uneedus.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:59 AM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> I am also against this proposal.
>
> If we allow holders of larger blocks back onto the list, we take away blocks that should go to smaller holders.
>
> The waiting list is NOT a lottery to be "won", and I think the policy should not change.
>
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
>
>
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
>
>> I do not support the reintroduction of organizations onto the
>> wait-list who were removed due to having existing address holdings
>> larger than a /20.  Being on the wait-list was never a guarantee that
>> you would receive space.  The AC had to balance the various elements
>> of
> block size and organizations who would be eligible to receive space under the updated policy and we were aware that the rules as implemented would prevent some organizations on the wait-list from receiving blocks going forward.
>> Speaking only for myself, not the AC
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 6/19/2020 11:25 AM, Alyssa Moore wrote:
>>        Hi folks,
>>
>>        There was some great discussion of this policy proposal at ARIN45.
> We hear a wide range of views including:
>>         1. Don't grandfather organizations. The new waitlist policy
>> is
> sound.
>>         2. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should be
> eligible for their original request size (even if it exceeds the new
> limit
>>            of a /22).
>>         3. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should
> remain eligible if their holdings exceed a /20 OR a /18. The draft
> policy
>>            under discussion specifies a /18 total holdings for
> grandfathered orgs, while the current waitlist policy (2019-16) specifies a /20.
>>         4. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
>> should be
> eligible regardless of their total holdings because that was not a
>>            restriction of the policy under which they originally
>> qualified
> for the waitlist.
>>         There was general support to continue finessing this draft.
>> If you
> have views on the above noted parameters, please make them known here.
>> For reference:
>>
>> Old waitlist policy
>>   1. Requester specifies smallest block they'd be willing to accept,
>> equal
> to or larger than the applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in
> ARIN
>>      policy.
>>   2. Did not place a limit on the total existing IP address holdings
>> of a
> party eligible for the waitlist.
>>   3. Made resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>> until after a period of 12 months. New Waitlist Policy  1. Limits the
>> size of block ARIN can issue on the waitlist to a /22.
>>   2. Places a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of a
>> party
> eligible for the waitlist at a /20 or less.
>>   3. Makes resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
>> until after a period of 60 months.
>>
>> Best,
>> Alyssa
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:35 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu<mailto:farmer at umn.edu>> wrote:
>>        I support this policy and believe the policy development
>> process is
> the proper place to handle this issue. However, this policy seems to
>>        be implementable as a one-time policy directive to ARIN Staff.
>> Once
> implemented, by putting the effected organizations back on the waiting
>>        list, it seems unnecessary to memorialized the text in the
>> NRPM, it
> would immediately become extraneous and potentially confusing to
>>        future readers of the NRPM.
>> Therefore, I would like to recommend the Policy Statement not be
>> added to the NRPM upon its implementation. I believe this to be
>> consistent with
> the intent of the policy.  Otherwise, does ARIN Staff have procedural advice on how best to handle what seems like a one-time directive?
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM ARIN <info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net>> wrote:
>>
>>        Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
>> Removed
> from
>>        Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>>
>>        Problem Statement:
>>
>>        The implementation of the ARIN-2019-16 Advisory Council
> Recommendation
>>        Regarding NRPM 4.1.8: Unmet Requests caused some organizations to be
>>        removed from the waiting list that were approved under the old
> policy?s
>>        eligibility criteria. These organizations should have been
> grandfathered
>>        when the waitlist was reopened to allow them to receive an
> allocation of
>>        IPv4 up to the new policy?s maximum size constraint of a /22.
>>
>>        Policy Statement: Update NRPM Section 4.1.8 as follows:
>>
>>        Add section 4.1.8.3 (temporary language in the NRPM to remain
>> until
> the
>>        policy objective is achieved)
>>
>>        Restoring organizations to the waitlist
>>
>>        ARIN will restore organizations that were removed from the
>> waitlist
> at
>>        the adoption of ARIN-2019-16 to their previous position if
>> their
> total
>>        holdings of IPv4 address space amounts to a /18 or less. The maximum
>>        size aggregate that a reinstated organization may qualify for
>> is a
> /22.
>>        All restored organizations extend their 2 year approval by
>> [number
> of
>>        months between July 2019 and implementation of new policy].
>> Any
> requests
>>        met through a transfer will be considered fulfilled and
>> removed from
> the
>>        waiting list.
>>
>>        Comments:
>>
>>        Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>
>>        Anything Else: While attending ARIN 44 and discussing this
>> with
> other
>>        community members the vast majority indicated that they agreed
>> that
> some
>>        organizations were treated unfairly. This proposal is a remedy.
>>        _______________________________________________
>>        ARIN-PPML
>>        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>        the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
>>        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>        https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,itejYWK1neA4HwQI2654uD6T84LDr-jtyvegBUSRLaqI3i7cGDsXGSLO9kZFAeEqibHLpNp9IQUPINbrQtts-4t2a9DQNRIijWuYbVTpZdvZJI2YmIU7zQMg&typo=1
>>        Please contact info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu<mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu> Networking &
>> Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN
>> 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
>> ===============================================
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End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 181, Issue 18
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