[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: / Implementation of ARIN-2019-16

Rudolph Daniel rudi.daniel at gmail.com
Fri Jul 17 15:17:26 EDT 2020


I am in support of the policy as written. However, what is the rationale
for /18 instead of /20 criteria?

Rudi Daniel
*danielcharles consulting
<http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kingstown-Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines/DanielCharles/153611257984774>*
1 784 430 9235
........ict4d........




On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:21 PM <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:

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>    1. Re:  Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering ofOrganizations
>       Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>       (=?utf-8?B?SGF5ZWUgQm9raGFyaQ==?=)
>    2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
>       Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16 (Mike Burns)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:15:45 -0400
> From: "=?utf-8?B?SGF5ZWUgQm9raGFyaQ==?=" <bokhari at cronomagic.com>
> To: "=?utf-8?B?RmVybmFuZG8gRnJlZGlhbmk=?=" <fhfrediani at gmail.com>,
>         "=?utf-8?B?YXJpbi1wcG1s?=" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml]  Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering
>         ofOrganizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of
>         ARIN-2019-16
> Message-ID: <202007171215443079347 at cronomagic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Organizations in the waiting list went to ARIN's vetting process before
> they got into waiting list, so justification already exist,
>
> Regards
> Hayee Bokhari
> 514-341-1579 Ex 212
> 800-427-6012 Ex 212
> bokhari at cronomagic.com
> http://www.cronomagic.com
>
> >What is the justification to give organization who already have some
> >reasonable space to work with, more space in current times ?
> >
> >Everybody is suffering from the same problem of IPv4 scarcity and that
> >affects all equally. If we have already a policy that limits on /20 it
> >is for a reason, a fair reason by the way. So why are we going to bend
> >it in this case in the other direction ?
> >I see this type of proposal privileging just a few rather than been
> >equalized to all others.
> >
> >Therefore I keep opposed to it.
> >
> >Fernando
> >
> >On 17/07/2020 12:24, Steven Ryerse via ARIN-PPML wrote:
> >> +1
> >>
> >>
> >> Steven Ryerse
> >> President
> >>
> >> sryerse at eclipse-networks.com | C: 770.656.1460
> >> 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Mike Burns
> >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> >> To: hostmaster at uneedus.com; arin-ppml at arin.net
> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >>
> >> I support the policy as written and I do not believe we should
> prioritize small holders over large holders.
> >> Large holders pay higher fees but I don't see the rationale behind
> favoring small  holders on the wait list.
> >> All holders should be on equal footing, we never had a new-entrant
> reserve at ARIN and I think if that is something we want to do, it should
> be discussed openly and not inserted through the back door of waitlist
> policy.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of
> hostmaster at uneedus.com
> >> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:59 AM
> >> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >>
> >> I am also against this proposal.
> >>
> >> If we allow holders of larger blocks back onto the list, we take away
> blocks that should go to smaller holders.
> >>
> >> The waiting list is NOT a lottery to be "won", and I think the policy
> should not change.
> >>
> >> Albert Erdmann
> >> Network Administrator
> >> Paradise On Line Inc.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
> >>
> >>> I do not support the reintroduction of organizations onto the
> >>> wait-list who were removed due to having existing address holdings
> >>> larger than a /20.? Being on the wait-list was never a guarantee that
> >>> you would receive space.? The AC had to balance the various elements
> >>> of
> >> block size and organizations who would be eligible to receive space
> under the updated policy and we were aware that the rules as implemented
> would prevent some organizations on the wait-list from receiving blocks
> going forward.
> >>> Speaking only for myself, not the AC
> >>>
> >>> Andrew
> >>>
> >>> On 6/19/2020 11:25 AM, Alyssa Moore wrote:
> >>>        Hi folks,
> >>>
> >>>        There was some great discussion of this policy proposal at
> ARIN45.
> >> We hear a wide range of views including:
> >>>         1. Don't grandfather organizations. The new waitlist policy is
> >> sound.
> >>>         2. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >>> should be
> >> eligible for their original request size (even if it exceeds the new
> limit
> >>>            of a /22).
> >>>         3. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >>> should
> >> remain eligible if their holdings exceed a /20 OR a /18. The draft
> policy
> >>>            under discussion specifies a?/18 total holdings for
> >> grandfathered orgs, while the current waitlist policy (2019-16)
> specifies a /20.
> >>>         4. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >>> should be
> >> eligible regardless of their total holdings because that was not a
> >>>            restriction of the policy under which they originally
> >>> qualified
> >> for the waitlist.
> >>>        ?There was general support to continue finessing this draft. If
> >>> you
> >> have views on the above noted parameters, please make them known here.
> >>> For reference:
> >>>
> >>> Old waitlist policy
> >>>   1. Requester specifies smallest block they'd be willing to accept,
> >>> equal
> >> to or larger than the applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in
> ARIN
> >>>      policy.
> >>>   2. Did not place a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of
> >>> a
> >> party eligible for the waitlist.
> >>>   3. Made resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
> >>> until after a period of 12 months. New Waitlist Policy  1. Limits the
> >>> size of block ARIN can issue on the waitlist to a /22.
> >>>   2. Places a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of a
> >>> party
> >> eligible for the waitlist at a /20 or less.
> >>>   3. Makes resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
> >>> until after a period of 60 months.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>> Alyssa
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:35 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> >>>        I support this policy and believe the policy development process
> >>> is
> >> the proper place to handle this issue. However, this policy seems to
> >>>        be implementable?as a one-time policy directive to ARIN Staff.
> >>> Once
> >> implemented, by putting the effected?organizations?back on the waiting
> >>>        list, it seems unnecessary to memorialized the text in the NRPM,
> >>> it
> >> would immediately become extraneous and potentially?confusing to
> >>>        future readers of the NRPM.
> >>> Therefore, I would like?to recommend the Policy Statement?not be added
> >>> to the NRPM upon its implementation. I believe this to be?consistent
> >>> with
> >> the intent of the policy.? Otherwise, does ARIN Staff have procedural
> advice on how best to handle what seems like a one-time directive?
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>        Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
> >>> Removed
> >> from
> >>>        Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >>>
> >>>        Problem Statement:
> >>>
> >>>        The implementation of the ARIN-2019-16 Advisory Council
> >> Recommendation
> >>>        Regarding NRPM 4.1.8: Unmet Requests caused some organizations
> to be
> >>>        removed from the waiting list that were approved under the old
> >> policy?s
> >>>        eligibility criteria. These organizations should have been
> >> grandfathered
> >>>        when the waitlist was reopened to allow them to receive an
> >> allocation of
> >>>        IPv4 up to the new policy?s maximum size constraint of a /22.
> >>>
> >>>        Policy Statement: Update NRPM Section 4.1.8 as follows:
> >>>
> >>>        Add section 4.1.8.3 (temporary language in the NRPM to remain
> >>> until
> >> the
> >>>        policy objective is achieved)
> >>>
> >>>        Restoring organizations to the waitlist
> >>>
> >>>        ARIN will restore organizations that were removed from the
> >>> waitlist
> >> at
> >>>        the adoption of ARIN-2019-16 to their previous position if their
> >> total
> >>>        holdings of IPv4 address space amounts to a /18 or less. The
> maximum
> >>>        size aggregate that a reinstated organization may qualify for is
> >>> a
> >> /22.
> >>>        All restored organizations extend their 2 year approval by
> >>> [number
> >> of
> >>>        months between July 2019 and implementation of new policy]. Any
> >> requests
> >>>        met through a transfer will be considered fulfilled and removed
> >>> from
> >> the
> >>>        waiting list.
> >>>
> >>>        Comments:
> >>>
> >>>        Timetable for implementation: Immediate
> >>>
> >>>        Anything Else: While attending ARIN 44 and discussing this with
> >> other
> >>>        community members the vast majority indicated that they agreed
> >>> that
> >> some
> >>>        organizations were treated unfairly. This proposal is a remedy.
> >>>        _______________________________________________
> >>>        ARIN-PPML
> >>>        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >>>        the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >>>        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>>
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,itejYWK1neA4HwQI2654uD6T84LDr-jtyvegBUSRLaqI3i7cGDsXGSLO9kZFAeEqibHLpNp9IQUPINbrQtts-4t2a9DQNRIijWuYbVTpZdvZJI2YmIU7zQMg&typo=1
> >>>        Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ===============================================
> >>> David Farmer? ? ? ? ? ? ?? Email:farmer at umn.edu Networking &
> >>> Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University
> >>> of Minnesota
> >>> 2218 University Ave SE? ? ? ? Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN
> >>> 55414-3029?? Cell: 612-812-9952
> >>> ===============================================
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> >>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fm
> >>> ailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,pr8_yOATR6fbNAoiwPjuIuQtJCW1Nm7qlk
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> >>> nLV4b0vI3AnQPQ,,&typo=1 Please contact info at arin.net if you experience
> >>> any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> ARIN-PPML
> >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> >>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fm
> >>> ailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,RsBXYYW2wGypb0Y4GbeHTbKFC2827Z3jsp
> >>> at1aezQl0yTqcY6d2pTdFdOAraqUCnPZ-okcO1-ObFc2thTsKxGhJ1eTCN_Cv8UpPoW80d
> >>> 6gOeCMy96nbc8z4g0yY0&typo=1 Please contact info at arin.net if you
> >>> experience any issues.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ARIN-PPML
> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,PZT3k6xZlfRBghEBxxufd4mu2Ve_KsVjNFFbz6LOCh9lpSIRtyNyDCvryXvevPimoqYvm4gDqykjaXQTjrj8V6QM-AY3-lYKC-1oXXBA-awSsCEN&typo=1
> >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ARIN-PPML
> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >_______________________________________________
> >ARIN-PPML
> >You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:20:49 -0400
> From: "Mike Burns" <mike at iptrading.com>
> To: "'Fernando Frediani'" <fhfrediani at gmail.com>,       <
> arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
>         Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of
> ARIN-2019-16
> Message-ID: <009201d65c56$3c1d14d0$b4573e70$@iptrading.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Fernando,
>
> What is the justification to favor small holders over large holders?
> As you say, scarcity affects all equally.
> The bending of policy occurred behind the scenes in an Advisory Council
> meeting.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Fernando
> Frediani
> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 12:01 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
>
> What is the justification to give organization who already have some
> reasonable space to work with, more space in current times ?
>
> Everybody is suffering from the same problem of IPv4 scarcity and that
> affects all equally. If we have already a policy that limits on /20 it is
> for a reason, a fair reason by the way. So why are we going to bend it in
> this case in the other direction ?
> I see this type of proposal privileging just a few rather than been
> equalized to all others.
>
> Therefore I keep opposed to it.
>
> Fernando
>
> On 17/07/2020 12:24, Steven Ryerse via ARIN-PPML wrote:
> > +1
> >
> >
> > Steven Ryerse
> > President
> >
> > sryerse at eclipse-networks.com | C: 770.656.1460
> > 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of Mike Burns
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:59 AM
> > To: hostmaster at uneedus.com; arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> > Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >
> > I support the policy as written and I do not believe we should
> prioritize small holders over large holders.
> > Large holders pay higher fees but I don't see the rationale behind
> favoring small  holders on the wait list.
> > All holders should be on equal footing, we never had a new-entrant
> reserve at ARIN and I think if that is something we want to do, it should
> be discussed openly and not inserted through the back door of waitlist
> policy.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> On Behalf Of
> > hostmaster at uneedus.com
> > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:59 AM
> > To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of
> > Organizations Removed from Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >
> > I am also against this proposal.
> >
> > If we allow holders of larger blocks back onto the list, we take away
> blocks that should go to smaller holders.
> >
> > The waiting list is NOT a lottery to be "won", and I think the policy
> should not change.
> >
> > Albert Erdmann
> > Network Administrator
> > Paradise On Line Inc.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Andrew Dul wrote:
> >
> >> I do not support the reintroduction of organizations onto the
> >> wait-list who were removed due to having existing address holdings
> >> larger than a /20.  Being on the wait-list was never a guarantee that
> >> you would receive space.  The AC had to balance the various elements
> >> of
> > block size and organizations who would be eligible to receive space
> under the updated policy and we were aware that the rules as implemented
> would prevent some organizations on the wait-list from receiving blocks
> going forward.
> >> Speaking only for myself, not the AC
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> On 6/19/2020 11:25 AM, Alyssa Moore wrote:
> >>        Hi folks,
> >>
> >>        There was some great discussion of this policy proposal at
> ARIN45.
> > We hear a wide range of views including:
> >>         1. Don't grandfather organizations. The new waitlist policy
> >> is
> > sound.
> >>         2. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >> should be
> > eligible for their original request size (even if it exceeds the new
> > limit
> >>            of a /22).
> >>         3. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >> should
> > remain eligible if their holdings exceed a /20 OR a /18. The draft
> > policy
> >>            under discussion specifies a /18 total holdings for
> > grandfathered orgs, while the current waitlist policy (2019-16)
> specifies a /20.
> >>         4. Organizations that were on the waitlist before 2019-16
> >> should be
> > eligible regardless of their total holdings because that was not a
> >>            restriction of the policy under which they originally
> >> qualified
> > for the waitlist.
> >>         There was general support to continue finessing this draft.
> >> If you
> > have views on the above noted parameters, please make them known here.
> >> For reference:
> >>
> >> Old waitlist policy
> >>   1. Requester specifies smallest block they'd be willing to accept,
> >> equal
> > to or larger than the applicable minimum size specified elsewhere in
> > ARIN
> >>      policy.
> >>   2. Did not place a limit on the total existing IP address holdings
> >> of a
> > party eligible for the waitlist.
> >>   3. Made resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
> >> until after a period of 12 months. New Waitlist Policy  1. Limits the
> >> size of block ARIN can issue on the waitlist to a /22.
> >>   2. Places a limit on the total existing IP address holdings of a
> >> party
> > eligible for the waitlist at a /20 or less.
> >>   3. Makes resources issued from the waitlist ineligible for transfer
> >> until after a period of 60 months.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Alyssa
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 3:35 PM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> >>        I support this policy and believe the policy development
> >> process is
> > the proper place to handle this issue. However, this policy seems to
> >>        be implementable as a one-time policy directive to ARIN Staff.
> >> Once
> > implemented, by putting the effected organizations back on the waiting
> >>        list, it seems unnecessary to memorialized the text in the
> >> NRPM, it
> > would immediately become extraneous and potentially confusing to
> >>        future readers of the NRPM.
> >> Therefore, I would like to recommend the Policy Statement not be
> >> added to the NRPM upon its implementation. I believe this to be
> >> consistent with
> > the intent of the policy.  Otherwise, does ARIN Staff have procedural
> advice on how best to handle what seems like a one-time directive?
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:21 PM ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>        Draft Policy ARIN-2020-2: Grandfathering of Organizations
> >> Removed
> > from
> >>        Waitlist by Implementation of ARIN-2019-16
> >>
> >>        Problem Statement:
> >>
> >>        The implementation of the ARIN-2019-16 Advisory Council
> > Recommendation
> >>        Regarding NRPM 4.1.8: Unmet Requests caused some organizations
> to be
> >>        removed from the waiting list that were approved under the old
> > policy?s
> >>        eligibility criteria. These organizations should have been
> > grandfathered
> >>        when the waitlist was reopened to allow them to receive an
> > allocation of
> >>        IPv4 up to the new policy?s maximum size constraint of a /22.
> >>
> >>        Policy Statement: Update NRPM Section 4.1.8 as follows:
> >>
> >>        Add section 4.1.8.3 (temporary language in the NRPM to remain
> >> until
> > the
> >>        policy objective is achieved)
> >>
> >>        Restoring organizations to the waitlist
> >>
> >>        ARIN will restore organizations that were removed from the
> >> waitlist
> > at
> >>        the adoption of ARIN-2019-16 to their previous position if
> >> their
> > total
> >>        holdings of IPv4 address space amounts to a /18 or less. The
> maximum
> >>        size aggregate that a reinstated organization may qualify for
> >> is a
> > /22.
> >>        All restored organizations extend their 2 year approval by
> >> [number
> > of
> >>        months between July 2019 and implementation of new policy].
> >> Any
> > requests
> >>        met through a transfer will be considered fulfilled and
> >> removed from
> > the
> >>        waiting list.
> >>
> >>        Comments:
> >>
> >>        Timetable for implementation: Immediate
> >>
> >>        Anything Else: While attending ARIN 44 and discussing this
> >> with
> > other
> >>        community members the vast majority indicated that they agreed
> >> that
> > some
> >>        organizations were treated unfairly. This proposal is a remedy.
> >>        _______________________________________________
> >>        ARIN-PPML
> >>        You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> >>        the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> >>        Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >>
> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2flists.arin.net%2fmailman%2flistinfo%2farin-ppml&c=E,1,itejYWK1neA4HwQI2654uD6T84LDr-jtyvegBUSRLaqI3i7cGDsXGSLO9kZFAeEqibHLpNp9IQUPINbrQtts-4t2a9DQNRIijWuYbVTpZdvZJI2YmIU7zQMg&typo=1
> >>        Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ===============================================
> >> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu Networking &
> >> Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology
> >> University of Minnesota
> >> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN
> >> 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
> >> ===============================================
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ARIN-PPML
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> ------------------------------
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> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 181, Issue 18
> ******************************************
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