[arin-ppml] Transparency on IPv4 transfers

David Farmer farmer at umn.edu
Mon Oct 28 03:18:24 EDT 2019

I'm sympathetic to the pricing transparency argument.  However, how does
ARIN know what is reported to it is actually correct? ARIN isn't a direct
party to the financial transactions, so it has no direct knowledge to
determine the accuracy of what is reported to it. Maybe if an escrow agent
is involved, they could be trusted third parties that ARIN could believe, I
suspect they would be violating banking laws if they report false

Furthermore, financial transactions are not the basis for and are not
associated with all transfers, yes they are for many if not most, but not
all. I know for a fact, a number of transfers have been made from a
non-profit resource holder that no longer operates a network and no longer
wants to manage reassignments on behalf of its former customers that were
made in the '90s when it still operated a network and is now transferring
the resources in question to the users of the reassignments, without any
financial transaction being involved.

So, as I said I'm sympathetic to the pricing transparency argument.
However, what kind of transparency would untrustworthy data actually
provide? In this case, I'm afraid untrustworthy or potentially bad data is
worse than no data at all.

Is voluntarily reporting good enough? If it is, then why involve ARIN in
the first place? If voluntarily reporting is good enough, have the brokers
serve this function, as IPv4.global is already doing. At least the brokers
are a party to the financial transactions and have direct knowledge that
ARIN doesn't currently have.

If voluntary reporting isn't good enough, how is the accuracy of what is
reported to ARIN validated? How do we ensure the trustworthiness of the
data? I think at the very least mandatory reporting would need to involve
the penalty of purgery somehow. Maybe requiring officer attestation or
notarized documentation of the price paid would get us there, I'm not sure.


On Sun, Oct 27, 2019 at 8:38 PM Michel Py <
michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:

> Dear ARIN members,
> I am moving here (where it belongs) a thread that started on nanog this
> week-end.
> Long story made short, I was suggesting that ARIN collects and publish
> financial data associated with NPRM 8.3 and possibly more transfers.
> Owen stated that he was "ambivalent" about it, which I interpret as a good
> state of mind for a dialog.
> Problem statement :
> At least one broker makes available the price paid by the recipient of
> transfers :
> https://auctions.ipv4.global/prior-sales
> My idea is as follows : I think this brings transparency to the market,
> and that ARIN should collect the data and publish it, so we have a more
> accurate picture of what the market is, and not only partial data from a
> small subset of brokers. We need better data.
> I like the idea of transparency. It may not be fashionable to say so, but
> auctions.ipv4.global somehow is the eBay of the transfer market and I like
> it.
> As a "buyer" I want to "buy" (note the quotes) a block of IPv4 addresses.
> Transparency on the market is good to me, because if I do my homework
> right I can expect a reasonably good estimate of what it is going to cost
> me.
> As a "seller" I want to "sell" (note the quotes) a block of IPv4 addresses.
> Transparency on the market is good to me, because if I do my homework
> right I can expect a reasonably good estimate of what I can get out of it.
> I think that there was a pretty good understanding that, if ARIN did not
> embrace the transfer market, there would have been a black market anyway.
> My suggestion is : transparent pricing is the next step. I am not
> suggesting that ARIN becomes the eBay of market transfers, but I am
> suggesting that ARIN publishes data about market pricing.
> Your comments are welcome.
> Michel.
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David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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