[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks - Clarifying Language

[scott]

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Martin Hannigan wrote:

> 
> 
> Bootp, AAA, dhcp? MSO, MNO? Been happening for a long time already.

pardon, we are talking about leasing to someone not operating a network, 
hence the "non-connected systems in the draft title".
nobody has a problem with upstream provided addresses via a standard dhcp 
"lease".

> Admittedly, this is a twist. However, its a cost saving measure for those
> who need it and have a real use.

How is this cheaper than addresses provided by upstream?  Granted, it can 
be costly to roll your own routing infrastructure on addresses allocated 
to you from the RIR, particularly if you don't have the technical chops to 
do it yourself.  That said, you are going to have to announce your 
"leased" address space somehow anyway.

> Cost wise, its effective. While I agree
> the business model may be less desired to some, the outcome is legit. 
> 
> The question could be about accurate tallying of utilization. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> -M<
> 
>  
> 
> On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 17:58 scott <scott at solarnetone.org> wrote:
>       IMHO, we should do everything we can to prevent "internet
>       landlords."
>       Further, I do not see a legitimage use case problem that is
>       solved by
>       allowing leasing that is not solved by upstream provided
>       address space, or
>       barring that, 4.10 of the NRPM.  If we want to enable spammers,
>       attack
>       networks, and other bad actors, then leasing is for sure a
>       great solution
>       for them, and the "internet slumlords" that would provide their
>       resources.
>
>       Scott
>
>       On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Martin Hannigan wrote:
>
>       >
>       >
>       > On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 10:30 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>       wrote:
>       >
>       >
>       > [ clip ]
>       >
>       >       However, what I do not want to see is a situation where
>       we
>       >       permit the desire to lease space as a justification for
>       >       obtaining space through the transfer market (or
>       > any other mechanism). If you want to leas space you already
>       have,
>       > then fine. But the desire to lease space in and of itself
>       should not
>       > qualify as “utilization” or
>       > “need” in evaluation of any form of resource request.
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       > Needs a little more clarify for me. Either the lessor or
>       lessee has a right
>       > to use the numbers as justification? The lessee may be the
>       logical party,
>       > but seems less likely to be in the transfer market. However,
>       if they are
>       > leasing numbers they may have legitimate need. On the other
>       hand, if a
>       > lessor has a ratio like an ISP or other provider using
>       numbers in an
>       > aggregated manner _and_ the lessee can't use the lease as
>       justification for
>       > transfers, that would seem to be inline with current
>       practice. I do think
>       > legitimately "in use" addresses should be eligible for "need"
>       credit. Isn't
>       > the idea that "access" is being facilitated by providing the
>       numbers? You
>       > can use RFC 1918 address space as a justification for need
>       and the numbers
>       > are technically "not connected". I'm thinking source nor
>       business model
>       > should matter, but that we're careful who is getting credit
>       for them. Just
>       > saying that made me wonder if this is even worth addressing.
>       >
>       > Feels like it is more sensible to allow the both to
>       demonstrate use as a
>       > justification and let ARIN process sort it out.
>       >
>       > $0.02
>       >
>       > Best,
>       >
>       > -M<
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       >
> 
> 
>