[arin-ppml] the bad 240/4 idea, was Solving the squatting problem

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Mon May 20 08:53:36 EDT 2019

> On May 17, 2019, at 8:11 PM, Michel Py <michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:
>> Owen DeLong wrote :
>> Regardless of the opinion of the IETF (or more accurately certain participants in
>> the IETF, since the IETF never made a coordinated statement of any sort of
>> WG conclusion that I was off base on that), those were the facts on the ground. [..]
> You caught them by surprise though. Was a long time ago, but I remember some pretty intense discussions that had a fairly liberal use of the F word and something about you "daring" them to challenge their point of view. Think of what George Carlin would have said if he was "certain participants" of the IETF.

Yeah, when I first proposed it, I didn’t expect it to get traction… I proposed it to make sure the community had the debate and to force the arrogant pricks at some of the larger providers that were looking forward to permanent customer lock-in to publicly admit to what they were doing. I actually expected them to get away with it, but turns out I wasn’t the only one who didn’t like it.

>> You keep saying this as if there was some huge expense to IPv6. I admit I don’t
>> know your specific network, but it’s pretty hard to fathom that at this point.
> Come visit. It's better than the Smithsonian.
> BTW, if someone is interested, I'm about to eWaste a million bucks (then) of DEC hardware running VMS with Alpha processors. Good chances are these are the last EISA machines we have (some are PCI), so there is a large stockpile of EISA spares too. Anyone needs an Adaptec 1742 ? Mylex DAC-960 EISA ? 3COM 3C597 100M Ethernet EISA card ?
> If it still is in shrinkwrap, it costs more.
> Sorry, you don't get the hard drives.

Those are some models I haven’t thought about in a long time. For those of us not working in a museum…

>> Then there’s probably a limit to the amount of time that $job[0]
>> will remain able to communicate with the full internet.
> It's a blessing. I spend a lot of time making sure it does not.

Hmmm… Well, if you just turn off all the routers, problem solved.

> I have a billion dollars in hardware that does not speak IPv6 and never will.
> That is not my problem.

This seems to reflect a common misconception about IPv6… It’s not an all or nothing proposition.

You can deploy IPv6 on your network without disrupting your IPv4 installation and everything that doesn’t speak IPv6 doesn’t even notice.

As long as you don’t do something stupid like publishing an AAAA record for a host that doesn’t do v6, it’s not that difficult.

>> You quoted 25% and 3% numbers earlier, I don’t know what your source is, but from Google, Facebook, Netflix,
>> and Akamai, it looks like something close to 50% of all internet traffic in North America is IPv6. More than
>> 50% of all mobile traffic in that same area. World wide the numbers drop some, but they are continuing to rise.
> I do not block Google, but I do block Facebook and Netflix. This is not what we pay employees to do.

Which has what to do with anything?

I was speaking of them as sources of overall traffic data representing a reasonable fraction of total internet traffic.

The fact that a couple of them don’t see usage from your particular network hardly seems statistically relevant.

>>> We are heading straight towards the balkanization of the Internet.
>> That’s been true to some extent since the early days of IPv6 development. There was always going
>> to come some time when the majority of the internet was going to decide that supporting IPv4
>> wasn’t worth the cost or hassle any more and at that point, you’d have IPv4 islands in an IPv6 ocean.
>> That fits the definition of balkanization[1] for some.
> I liked that definition, but that time has come, and gone. It was before the FUD that the Internet would collapse because of a shortage of IPv4 addresses was still a thing.
> The world has ran out of IPv4, the Internet is still there, and mine is 0% IPv6. Even by Google standards, we are at about 25%, and it has been slowing down.
> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
> Let me repeat this : 0% of my customers have IPv6. 0% of my suppliers have IPv6. My current upstream does not provide IPv6.

I get it… You live in an IPv6 waste land and you’re apparently happy with that.

> I remember the days when I had my ASN on my home aDSL, and redundant IPv6 tunnels to HE and Viagénie. I paid $500 to ARIN to get the ASN for my home aDSL.
> Was quite a surprise that I got it, actually. I did not cheat on the application.
> Owen, these days are gone. Do you want to be Jordi ?

I’m not sure I understand that reference.

FWIW, I’m using a cablemodem now instead of DSL, but I’m still running an ASN at my house and it’s still dual-stacked.

> Michel.
> [1] Apologies to Jan Zorz for using your chosen term, which is horribly politically incorrect in his opinion, and he should know.

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