[arin-ppml] Solving the squatting problem

Aaron Dudek adudek16 at gmail.com
Thu May 16 17:03:32 EDT 2019

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:04 PM Michel Py
<michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us> wrote:
> > Owen DeLong wrote :
> > Let’s see what that entails…
> > Any of those organizations have Linux boxes? — I bet the answer is yes… OK… Have to update the Linux Kernel…
> Already done.
> > BSD? — Yep — OK, that too…
> Not on top of that one, but I don't see a problem either.
> > Cisco?…
> Would not be an issue, since Cisco employees wrote one of the drafts.

Just because it is a draft written by a vendor doesn't imply that the
vendor will actually support it or
that support for it will be quickly implemented.

> > Juniper?…
> Easy money : do it, or we switch to Cisco

Okay. Now you have to retrain your NOC to deal with a new CLI. Not
always an issue but we are talking
generalities here.

> > Windows?…
> > MacOS?…
> > Arista?…
> > iPhones?
> > Androids?
> > Windows Phones?
> Don't care, don't use, don't need. Not on my internal network infrastructure.
> And you forgot FRR and BIRD, don't see an issue there either.

That is great that you do not use it. You, however, are not the only
user of the Internet.

> > I’m arguing that 204/4 wouldn’t have eliminated the squatting problem.
> Come on, how could you say that ? if 240/4 was available, people would use it instead of squatting DoD space. They know it's wrong.

Speculation. What is to stop them from using another block?

> > It does not work, and as time passes, it will work even less.
> > How do you figure this? It’s working more and more every day… Every statistical
> > measure shows IPv6 to be a growing fraction of internet traffic.
> Obviously has not stopped people from squatting, and squatting is a much more recent phenomenon than IPv6.
> >> You're telling them to drink fruit juice, but they want booze.
> >> No matter what you say, they'll keep making moonshine.
> > Well, it’s more like I’m saying “Look, we’re out of petroleum and
> > continuing to use it is destroying the planet. Perhaps solar, wind,
> > hydro, or other renewables would meet your energy needs?” And you’re
> > saying that we should just keep supporting their petroleum habit.
> You're missing the point here. Every bit of renewable energy we use reduces the use of fossil fuels.
> You know why : because energy is energy. There is no IPv6 energy incompatible with IPv4 energy.
> Using IPv6 barely reduces IPv4 usage : almost everyone has to dual-stack.

Yes, however, this is something that will go away.  I run a network
that is native IPv6. IPv4 is tunneled over that if customers need it.

> >> This is not what you and I wanted, 20 years ago. Owen, the
> >> prohibition looked like a good idea, but it did not work.
> > Phrasing it like prohibition is where you depart from reality. Nobody was trying to prohibit
> > people from using IPv4 as long as there were IPv4 addresses available. Now that we’re out,
> They are not out. There is a /4 sitting unused, and efforts to torpedo it have led to squatting.
> Squatting is a direct by-product of RFC1918 space being too small. We have the solution, yet you support the prohibition.
> In order to promote your views of IPv6 deployment, you prohibit people from using 240/4.
> Result : they squat DoD space.

So, lets fast forward a few years. What do we do when 240/4 isn't big enough?

> This IS prohibition : they want the barrel of 240/4 booze, you say they can't have it. At night, when the moon shines, they make their own. Down the hatch, a bottle of 30/8 gets the job done, and they still are not drinking your fruit juice.
> People are not drinking less, and now the mafia owns the market. And you don't see it much as a problem.
> Michel.
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