[arin-ppml] [EXT] Re: Open Petition for ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking is an ARIN Policy Violation

William Herrin bill at herrin.us
Thu May 2 18:21:55 EDT 2019

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 8:45 AM Fernando Frediani <fhfrediani at gmail.com>

> Not sure if this is really the main discussion but the point about owning
> IP addresses was an example of something that is actually the correct way
> it works, despite what happens in practice people don't own it, cannot sell
> it (even if they believe they have the absolute right to sell - excluding
> legacy cases). The fact is that it CAN be revoked as it is not their
> property as something that you buy.

Respectfully, you can repeat that claim as much as you want but until ARIN
actually tries and then survives a precedent-setting court challenge it's
just a theory and not, IMHO, a strong one,

As we evaluate the proposal, legal risk is one of the things we'll want to
consider. If ARIN tries to enforce a revocation and loses, the policies
which permit them to reject registration changes land on much shakier
ground. ARIN could end up a pure registry without any policy role despite
what its members want. That's one reason the organization has been so
reluctant to try.

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 9:46 AM John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
> ARIN has full operational control over the ARIN registry, so if you
believe that your issued IP address blocks are the rights to specific
entries in the ARIN registry, then you certainly don’t have any property
rights to same. ARIN does administer the ARIN registry in accordance with
the community-developed policies. and that enforcement includes revocations
of address space from parties for reasons other than non-payment.
> If you believe that your “IP addresses” are something other than the
assigned rights to entries in the ARIN registry, then that’s fine - many
people in this world have interesting beliefs, but that doesn’t affect in
the least the ability of ARIN to administer its registry per the
community-developed policies.


I own That little corner of the Internet address space is
mine. If you think ARIN can change its registration such that an ISP will
no longer determine from looking up the record that I have the exclusive
right to those addresses on the Internet and you think ARIN will survive a
suit for tortious interference and whatever else a lawyer and I can come up
with as a consequence, go right ahead and change it.

I don't think you can. I'm very confident you won't. ARIN's history in
court is one of settlement after settlement, carefully avoiding having the
judge set a precedent even when policies had to be stretched to breaking
like they were for Microsoft/Nortel.

Actions speak louder than words. ARIN's actions say it's not at all
confident it has the power you suggest here. Your actions have credibility.
I believe them.

Bill Herrin

William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com  bill at herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
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