[arin-ppml] prop266 - re-framing the discussion

Michel Py michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us
Thu May 2 17:06:09 EDT 2019

>> Michel Py wrote:
>> Let's start with an easy one : what do we do with ARIN members who hijack DoD space ?
>> It is no secret that has become RFC1918 bis.
>> They don't announce it, but they use it. I shows up in traceroutes.
>> https://blog.erratasec.com/2013/12/dod-address-space-its-not-conspiracy.html#.XMsp8DBKhdg

> Carlos Friaças wrote :
> That's really news to me.

This is quite common in Europe as well, I hear. Probably faster to answer "who does not do it" than "who does".
This is the source of urban legends saying that the NSA is spying on everyone in the entire world.
I heard that some ISPs got in hot waters with that, because some did not believe that they hijacked DoD prefixes as an extension of RFC1918 and were convinced that said ISP was in bed with US Intelligence to spy on their subscribers.

> As long as you don't announce it to other networks i don't see an issue.

You're not the DoD. Who knows what they have in this announced space.

> ARIN at least has the ability to do something,

And assume the legal liability for it ?

If ARIN determines that a member has done something "bad", the hijacked sues the "bad" member on the grounds that ARIN has determined that they were "bad", and member sues ARIN because ARIN dared to label them "bad".

If ARIN determines that a member has not done anything "bad", then the org that feels that they have been "hijacked" sues ARIN because ARIN failed to recognize the "bad" part of it.

Look at the DoD example again. I don't want ARIN to be in the middle of a battle between the DoD and large operators, therefore I say it's better to keep the status quo and have them sort out their differences in court without ARIN being what triggered the battle.


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