[arin-ppml] IP leasing policy

Thu May 30 14:53:42 EDT 2019

Mike, sorry to disagree with you again about this topic.

The mechanism is to adapt the RIR policies for this new scenario where 
the RIR keeps total control of it instead of delegating to private 
companies to speculate on something they or their customers do not own.

Those who do things against the RIR's mandate and do not keep the 
registration accurate are the ones wrong in this history. They must bind 
to the current rules and not try to force the RIR to something that may 
only benefit a small portion of community and very private interests. 
The RIR doesn't have to adapt to all kinds of practices just because 
they are being done anyway.
If this affects abuse complaints and law enforcement there is always 
someone responsible to be called up, in this case the person who is 
leasing (and therefore not using) the resource instead of transferring 
to someone else which is permitted by current rules.

The same way there are plenty of people which find a big deviation of 
the use IP space should ever have and prefer to keep this control in the 
hands of the RIR so things can be done more fairly and not let them be 
negotiated as a kind of real estate business.

Fernando

On 30/05/2019 14:44, Mike Burns wrote:
>
> Hi Fernando,
>
> If you search “ipv4 leasing”  you will find this practice widespread 
> globally.
>
> We have transitioned from the original distribution mechanism of the 
> RIRs before exhaust, to a new mechanism.
>
> The new mechanism is the IPv4 market.
>
> You are free to ignore it or tilt against it, but is the current state 
> of affairs.
>
> In this state, without a specific policy regarding leasing, leasing 
> happens in a way that is sometimes working against the RIR’s mandate 
> regarding accurate registration. This has effects for abuse complaints 
> and law enforcement activities, so there are probably varied 
> constituents among the ARIN community who might see some value in a 
> lease policy.
>
> In the context of the global anti-hijacking proposals which have 
> largely been deemed out-of-scope, a lease policy has some results that 
> are sympathetic to the goals of those proposals.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> *From:*ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *Fernando 
> Frediani
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 30, 2019 12:46 PM
> *To:* arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] IP leasing policy
>
> +1
>
> What I am seeing by some positions are attempts to turn a fraudulent 
> act into "something normal" because "market demands" and a total 
> diversion of what IP space should ever be making look normal a company 
> who received IP space from the RIR and **does not use it** rent it to 
> someone else a ownership of a property they do not have.
> And some of these attempts come from people who apparently have high 
> financial interests in this deviation from purpose of IP space, but 
> try to make it look like it is "for the good of the Internet".
>
> Trying to resume it in different terms it looks like in the recent 
> IPv4 exhaustion times some individuals wish to go for "all-or-nothing" 
> and make up rules to allow them to have easy access to IPv4 space via 
> a shortcut and in front of many other people, bypassing the RIR if 
> possible regardless how.
> It has always been clear to many professionals what IP allocation by 
> an ISP to its customers means, doesn't even need to explain much, it 
> is obvious, but then there are attempts to make leasing a property 
> they don't own something acceptable and normal.
>
> We are here discussing rules for a waiting list to make it something 
> fair and that all can be treated in the same way, but suddenly some 
> see they feel "more equal than others" demanding to have ways to 
> access IP space in a more privileged way than those who are patiently 
> waiting. Strange times !
>
> Shall we focus ?
>
> Fernando
>
> On 30/05/2019 12:25, Jimmy Hess wrote:
>
>     On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 5:26 PM Scott Leibrand<scottleibrand at gmail.com>  <mailto:scottleibrand at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>         (New subject line for a new topic.)
>
>         You just described a lease policy: one where leasing is not allowed.  Such a policy would
>
>         have to exist to be enforced.  Right now there is no policy, so leasing is allowed because
>
>         it's not prohibited.
>
>     Actually not.   ARIN's Policy does not have to contain a specific
>
>     prohibition for every form of abuse --- The PDP describes when
>
>     IP addresses can be allocated,  and any intended Usage for IP
>
>     resources that is not provided by an allocation policy should not
>
>     get past ARIN's required reviews.
>
>     An organization attempting to misrepresent to ARIN the nature of
>
>     that organization and their business, the need for IP addresses,  or
>
>     the intended use for IP addresses and then after receiving an allocation
>
>     proceeding to "leasing"  IP addresses without services would be fraud.
>
>     "We have no allocations but want a /22 of IP addresses,  b/c we intend
>
>     to open up shop and lease /24s to qualified applicants..."  should Not
>
>     and even pass muster under the current policies and required reviews
>
>     ---  ISPs  should in fact be able to show through sufficient connectivity
>
>     contracts, etc, that they have procured an ISP network;   If they cannot,  then
>
>     they are not providing Internet Services,  then they are not an ISP.
>
>         ISPs lease space to their customers all the time, bundled with IP connectivity.   [...]
>
>     No....    ISPs  provide services related to global IP connectivity and allocate
>
>     in the amount of IP addresses required for use with that ISP's services;
>
>     the IPs are not a separate thing that an ISP may offer to
>
>     others who are not current customers of their ISP business.
>
>         Hosting companies do the same.  So do VPN providers.
>
>     Hosting companies and VPN providers with a working network and
>
>     customers to serve are ISPs;  they are in the business of providing
>
>     internet connectivity to "devices" that are owned or rented by
>
>     external customers.
>
>           The challenge with a "no leasing allowed" policy is differentiating ....
>
>     There is no need to differentiate.   A  re-assignment or allocation
>
>     is something that ISPs do to allow a customer use of IP addresses
>
>     necessary in order to have internet connectivity
>
>     through that ISP's services OR to allocate a range of IP addresses to
>
>     another ISP who is their customer,  After the allocating ISP
>
>     reviews and verifies their customer's  network design and
>
>     IP address justification documentation accordingly.
>
>     You can tell if an organization is an ISP,  and not "Leasing" IP addresses,
>
>     because an ISP will only allocate or assign according to justified need
>
>     respecting ARIN's required Policies and terms
>
>     regarding customers required to return IP addresses and requiring and
>
>     confirming that downstream customers adhere to required ARIN policies.
>
>     4.2.3.3 and  4.2.3.4 through 7*
>
>     "The original ISP should allow sufficient time for the renumbering process
>
>     to be completed before requiring the address space to be returned."
>
>     "ISPs must require their downstream customers to adhere to the
>
>     following criteria: ...".
>
>     A  "leasing of IPs" is a fraudulent action not authorized by the ARIN RSA which
>
>     involves a holder of number resources purporting to Rent "ownership"
>
>     to property they do not have ---
>
>     that is, a block of IP resources as if those were a piece of property that
>
>     may be retained or procured by an end user organization for speculative
>
>     purposes or "in case of possible future need some down the road"
>
>     without ever actually using or having a valid justification to receive/hold
>
>     the IP resources.
>
>     --
>
>     -JH
>
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