[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool

Fernando Frediani fhfrediani at gmail.com
Thu Aug 15 22:48:47 EDT 2019


Hello Albert

I would agree with most of what you said specially with the condition to 
have a prove use of IPv6 in order to receive any IPv4 if that is 
according to whatever policy for waitlist.
However the 4.10 conditions are very specific on how these resources 
must be used in order to be justified and for a new entrant that may not 
be the case for all possible scenarios and it would not be fair with 
them. Therefore things need to be differentiated for both cases and that 
doesn't exclude the need of prove IPv6 deployment, just without the 
bindings of 4.10 for new entrants.
Regards
Fernando

On 15/08/2019 22:38, hostmaster at uneedus.com wrote:
> I am in favor of this proposal.
>
> 4.10 will in effect become the new "waiting list", but with an 
> additional condition that I feel is important.  That condition is a 
> requirement for the use of IPv6. The only other real change from the 
> existing waiting is the size of each "dip", and the total size that 
> one can obtain.  The current waiting list is more generous versus this 
> proposal.  I consider that "feature" to be a positive change.
>
> I am ready for ARIN to start an IPv6 requirement whenever it allocates 
> IPv4 space. The current waiting list has NO IPv6 requirement.  This 
> proposal is a good start to that goal.
>
> I would consider it not responsible at this point for a new entrant to 
> not implement IPv6 at this point. Let those that want to continue or 
> newly establish new IPv4 infrastructure to go to the marketplace, and 
> reserve all IPv4 returns for those that have or will establish IPv6.
>
> Albert Erdmann
> Network Administrator
> Paradise On Line Inc.
>
> On Thu, 15 Aug 2019, Owen DeLong wrote:
>
>> Really, it seems to me that this proposal is another attempt at 
>> eliminating the waiting list for unmet requests.
>> The first attempt (ARIN auctions the space) met with resistance from 
>> ARIN’s legal team (for good reason), so now this attempts to 
>> sequester the space where it will be
>> hard to distribute rather than allowing the waiting list to have any 
>> potential to compete with the transfer market.
>>
>> The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools) are well stocked and 
>> unlikely to run out in any useful IPv4 lifetime.
>>
>> As such, restocking them from returned space strikes me as just a way 
>> to sequester this space where it cannot be used.
>>
>> IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission and should not be allowed.
>>
>> I oppose the policy as written and as proposed to be amended.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>       On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML 
>> <arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for the continued input on this draft policy proposal.
>>
>> I will be updating the text of the draft policy to include both 4.4 
>> and 4.10 pools.  Point of information, the 4.4 pool currently has 
>> approximately 391 /24’s
>> and 4.10 has approximately 15,753 /24’s available and are not 
>> estimated to run out in the next five years.
>>
>> Please keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for the council.
>>
>> -Alison
>>
>> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf 
>> Of Fernando Frediani
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:44 AM
>> To: arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned 
>> Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool
>>
>>
>> The point is that you treating IP marketing as something 'natural' or 
>> a 'default route' which it is not and can never be. Natural is to 
>> receive some addresses
>> from the RIR in first place so they are treated as anyone else was in 
>> the past and have a chance to exist in the Internet with same 
>> conditions as all others.
>> From that if they need extra space then fine to seek for alternative 
>> ways.
>>
>> I don't think a new entrants would automatically qualify for 4.10 in 
>> all cases therefore any space left should be targeted also to them as 
>> well to IPv6
>> transition and critical infrastructure. Otherwise the community will 
>> be creating an artificial barrier to them in order to favor the IP 
>> market while the RIR
>> still has IPv4 space available for them.
>>
>> Fernando
>>
>> On 30/07/2019 10:30, Tom Fantacone wrote:
>>       I would think that the majority of new entrants would need at 
>> least some allocation to help with IPv6 transition and would qualify 
>> for addresses
>>       from the 4.10 pool.  Depending on what they receive from that 
>> pool and when, they may not qualify for additional waiting list 
>> addresses and would
>>       have to go to the transfer market for additional IPv4 space 
>> anyway.  Those that don't qualify under 4.10 can still get smaller 
>> IPv4 blocks on the
>>       transfer market readily, and the cost for blocks in the /24-/22 
>> range is not prohibitive.  Certainly an organization seeking a small 
>> IPv4 block for
>>       multi-homing or other purposes is better off spending a few 
>> thousand dollars to purchase a range than waiting a year on the 
>> waiting list to put
>>       their plans in motion.
>>
>>
>> Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve pool specifically for 
>> IPv6 transition, the expectation of their final /8 policy was to 
>> allow new entrants
>> access to IPv4 to assist in this transition.  In reality, it didn't 
>> work out that way and most of the /22 allocations to new LIRs from 
>> the final /8 were
>> to existing organizations who spun up new, related entities in order 
>> to increase their IPv4 holdings:
>>
>> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations 
>>
>>
>> I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but don't see the current 
>> waiting list as a great help to them vs. the 4.10 pool or the 
>> transfer market, both of
>> which allow you your allocation in a timely fashion.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Tom Fantacone
>>
>>
>> ---- On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400 Fernando Frediani 
>> <fhfrediani at gmail.com> wrote ----
>>
>>       I find it interesting the idea of privileging the pool 
>> dedicated to
>>       facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also agree with the comments 
>> below in
>>       the sense that it's not very beneficial do most ARIN members 
>> due to max
>>       size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20.
>>
>>       However one point I couldn't identify is where the new entrants 
>> stand in
>>       this new possible scenario ? Will they only be able to apply 
>> under the
>>       4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a access/broadband ISPs may be 
>> easier to
>>       fit, but not necessarily for other scenarios and types of ISPs.
>>       Therefore if I didn't miss anything these returned addresses 
>> should also
>>       be able to go to new entrants, not only to 4.10 reserved pool 
>> conditions.
>>
>>       Best regards
>>       Fernando Frediani
>>
>>       On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone wrote:
>>       > I found the wording of the Problem Statement on this one a bit
>>       > confusing. However, after deciphering the effect of the 
>> actual policy
>>       > change I support it.
>>       >
>>       > Essentially, all returned IPv4 space will no longer go to the 
>> waiting
>>       > list but will supplement the 4.10 reserved pool used to 
>> enhance IPv6
>>       > deployment.  This essentially kills off the waiting list.
>>       >
>>       > The recent restrictions placed on the waiting list to reduce 
>> fraud
>>       > have hobbled it to the point where it's not very beneficial 
>> to most
>>       > ARIN members.  (Max size, /22, cannot be holding more than a 
>> /20).
>>       > It's essentially only useful to new entrants, but those that 
>> go on it
>>       > still have to wait many months to receive their small 
>> allocation.  If
>>       > they justify need now, but have to wait that long, how 
>> critical is
>>       > their need if they're willing to wait that long? Small blocks 
>> are not
>>       > terribly expensive and can be quickly gotten on the transfer 
>> market.
>>       > I can understand waiting that long for a large block needed 
>> for a
>>       > longer term project due to prohibitive cost, but I don't see 
>> a great
>>       > benefit to the waiting list as it stands.
>>       >
>>       > Also, if there's any fraud left on the waiting list, this 
>> would kill it.
>>       >
>>       > I would hope, however, that if implemented, those currently 
>> on the
>>       > waiting list would be grandfathered in.  I do think some 
>> entities with
>>       > legitimate need got burned on the last change made to the 
>> waiting list.
>>       >
>>       > At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote:
>>       >> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
>>       >> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved 
>> Pool" as a
>>       >> Draft Policy.
>>       >>
>>       >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is below and can be found at:
>>       >>
>> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/
>>       >>
>>       >> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. 
>> The AC will
>>       >> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance 
>> of this
>>       >> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource
>>       >> policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP).
>>       >> Specifically, these principles are:
>>       >>
>>       >> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>>       >> * Technically Sound
>>       >> * Supported by the Community
>>       >>
>>       >> The PDP can be found at:
>>       >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/
>>       >>
>>       >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>>       >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/
>>       >>
>>       >> Regards,
>>       >>
>>       >> Sean Hopkins
>>       >> Policy Analyst
>>       >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>       >>
>>       >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 
>> Reserved Pool
>>       >>
>>       >> Problem Statement:
>>       >>
>>       >> An inconsistent and unpredictable stream of address space is an
>>       >> unsuitable method of populating the waiting list (4.1.8.1) and
>>       >> fulfilling subsequent requests.
>>       >>
>>       >> Policy statement:
>>       >>
>>       >> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6 
>> Deployment" to
>>       >> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"
>>       >>
>>       >> Change" When ARIN receives its last /8 IPv4 allocation from 
>> IANA, a
>>       >> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will be set aside and dedicated to
>>       >> facilitate IPv6 deployment. Allocations and assignments from 
>> this
>>       >> block " to "In addition to the contiguous /10 IPv4 block set 
>> aside
>>       >> and dedicated to facilitate IPv6 deployment, all returns and
>>       >> revocations of IPv4  blocks will be added to the pool of space
>>       >> dedicated to the facilitation of IPv6 deployment. 
>> Allocations and
>>       >> assignments from this pool "
>>       >>
>>       >> Change "This block will be subject to a minimum size 
>> allocation of
>>       >> /28 and a maximum size allocation of /24. ARIN should use 
>> sparse
>>       >> allocation when possible within that /10 block." to "This 
>> pool will
>>       >> be subject to a minimum size allocation of /28 and a maximum 
>> sized
>>       >> allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse allocation when 
>> possible
>>       >> within the pool."
>>       >>
>>       >> Comments:
>>       >>
>>       >> Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>       >> _______________________________________________
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>>       >
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>>
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>
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