[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool

Fernando Frediani fhfrediani at gmail.com
Thu Aug 15 18:03:30 EDT 2019


The waiting list is a necessary and fair way to manage what is left for 
the RIR to distribute to organizations according to its mission and 
based on similar rules that were ever used. If there is fraud so let's 
fix rules for the addresses from these pools as it has been discussed 
recently about the minimal wait period for transfers.
What is out of the RIR's mission is shape its policies to favor the 
transfer market which should never be seen as something normal or 
natural or first option.
Fernando

On 15/08/2019 18:47, Mike Burns wrote:
>
> Hi Owen,
>
> It’s hard to predict when the useful IPv4 lifetime will end, so it’s 
> hard to say whether runout of these reserved pools is unlikely, 
> especially if conditions change.
>
> If  you feel 4.4 and 4.10 are severely overstocked, maybe a proposal 
> to release those “sequestered” addresses should be forthcoming, as 
> maintaining those pools at those levels is counter to our mission?
>
> Do you have any comments on the problem statement, and the idea that 
> the haphazard and unpredictable influx of addresses into the waiting 
> list is problematic? For example, doesn’t the current constitution of 
> the waiting list encourage virtually all ARIN members to enter the 
> lottery for a /22? The size is small, the justification options pretty 
> generous, the downside minimal.
>
> In my mind the waiting list is a fraud magnet and has outlived its  
> usefulness, and yes, this is an attempt to eliminate it without going 
> down the auction route. The addresses haven’t been destroyed, just 
> taken off the market, adding the tiniest bit to the existing pools, 
> whose size was approved by the community.
>
> I support the policy as written and amended.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike
>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> *On Behalf Of *Owen DeLong
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 5:10 PM
> *To:* WOOD Alison * DAS <Alison.WOOD at oregon.gov>
> *Cc:* arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned 
> Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool
>
> Really, it seems to me that this proposal is another attempt at 
> eliminating the waiting list for unmet requests.
>
> The first attempt (ARIN auctions the space) met with resistance from 
> ARIN’s legal team (for good reason), so now this attempts to sequester 
> the space where it will be hard to distribute rather than allowing the 
> waiting list to have any potential to compete with the transfer market.
>
> The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools) are well stocked and 
> unlikely to run out in any useful IPv4 lifetime.
>
> As such, restocking them from returned space strikes me as just a way 
> to sequester this space where it cannot be used.
>
> IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission and should not be allowed.
>
> I oppose the policy as written and as proposed to be amended.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>     On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML
>     <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>> wrote:
>
>     Thank you for the continued input on this draft policy proposal.
>
>     I will be updating the text of the draft policy to include both
>     4.4 and 4.10 pools.  Point of information, the 4.4 pool currently
>     has approximately 391 /24’s and 4.10 has approximately 15,753
>     /24’s available and are not estimated to run out in the next five
>     years.
>
>     Please keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for the council.
>
>     -Alison
>
>     *From:*ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]*On Behalf
>     Of*Fernando Frediani
>     *Sent:*Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:44 AM
>     *To:*arin-ppml <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
>     *Subject:*Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned
>     Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool
>
>     The point is that you treating IP marketing as something 'natural'
>     or a 'default route' which it is not and can never be. Natural is
>     to receive some addresses from the RIR in first place so they are
>     treated as anyone else was in the past and have a chance to exist
>     in the Internet with same conditions as all others. From that if
>     they need extra space then fine to seek for alternative ways.
>
>     I don't think a new entrants would automatically qualify for 4.10
>     in all cases therefore any space left should be targeted also to
>     them as well to IPv6 transition and critical infrastructure.
>     Otherwise the community will be creating an artificial barrier to
>     them in order to favor the IP market while the RIR still has IPv4
>     space available for them.
>
>     Fernando
>
>     On 30/07/2019 10:30, Tom Fantacone wrote:
>
>         I would think that the majority of new entrants would need at
>         least some allocation to help with IPv6 transition and would
>         qualify for addresses from the 4.10 pool. Depending on what
>         they receive from that pool and when, they may not qualify for
>         additional waiting list addresses and would have to go to the
>         transfer market for additional IPv4 space anyway.  Those that
>         don't qualify under 4.10 can still get smaller IPv4 blocks on
>         the transfer market readily, and the cost for blocks in the
>         /24-/22 range is not prohibitive.  Certainly an organization
>         seeking a small IPv4 block for multi-homing or other purposes
>         is better off spending a few thousand dollars to purchase a
>         range than waiting a year on the waiting list to put their
>         plans in motion.
>
>
>         Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve pool specifically
>         for IPv6 transition, the expectation of their final /8 policy
>         was to allow new entrants access to IPv4 to assist in this
>         transition.  In reality, it didn't work out that way and most
>         of the /22 allocations to new LIRs from the final /8 were to
>         existing organizations who spun up new, related entities in
>         order to increase their IPv4 holdings:
>
>         https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations
>
>         I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but don't see the
>         current waiting list as a great help to them vs. the 4.10 pool
>         or the transfer market, both of which allow you your
>         allocation in a timely fashion.
>
>         Best Regards,
>
>         Tom Fantacone
>
>         ---- On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400*Fernando Frediani
>         <fhfrediani at gmail.com <mailto:fhfrediani at gmail.com>>*wrote ----
>
>             I find it interesting the idea of privileging the pool
>             dedicated to
>             facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also agree with the
>             comments below in
>             the sense that it's not very beneficial do most ARIN
>             members due to max
>             size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20.
>
>             However one point I couldn't identify is where the new
>             entrants stand in
>             this new possible scenario ? Will they only be able to
>             apply under the
>             4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a access/broadband ISPs may
>             be easier to
>             fit, but not necessarily for other scenarios and types of
>             ISPs.
>             Therefore if I didn't miss anything these returned
>             addresses should also
>             be able to go to new entrants, not only to 4.10 reserved
>             pool conditions.
>
>             Best regards
>             Fernando Frediani
>
>             On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone wrote:
>             > I found the wording of the Problem Statement on this one
>             a bit
>             > confusing. However, after deciphering the effect of the
>             actual policy
>             > change I support it.
>             >
>             > Essentially, all returned IPv4 space will no longer go
>             to the waiting
>             > list but will supplement the 4.10 reserved pool used to
>             enhance IPv6
>             > deployment.  This essentially kills off the waiting list.
>             >
>             > The recent restrictions placed on the waiting list to
>             reduce fraud
>             > have hobbled it to the point where it's not very
>             beneficial to most
>             > ARIN members.  (Max size, /22, cannot be holding more
>             than a /20).
>             > It's essentially only useful to new entrants, but those
>             that go on it
>             > still have to wait many months to receive their small
>             allocation.  If
>             > they justify need now, but have to wait that long, how
>             critical is
>             > their need if they're willing to wait that long?  Small
>             blocks are not
>             > terribly expensive and can be quickly gotten on the
>             transfer market.
>             > I can understand waiting that long for a large block
>             needed for a
>             > longer term project due to prohibitive cost, but I don't
>             see a great
>             > benefit to the waiting list as it stands.
>             >
>             > Also, if there's any fraud left on the waiting list,
>             this would kill it.
>             >
>             > I would hope, however, that if implemented, those
>             currently on the
>             > waiting list would be grandfathered in.  I do think some
>             entities with
>             > legitimate need got burned on the last change made to
>             the waiting list.
>             >
>             > At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote:
>             >> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
>             >> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved
>             Pool" as a
>             >> Draft Policy.
>             >>
>             >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is below and can be found at:
>             >>
>             >>https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/
>             >>
>             >> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on
>             PPML. The AC will
>             >> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
>             conformance of this
>             >> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number
>             resource
>             >> policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP).
>             >> Specifically, these principles are:
>             >>
>             >> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource
>             Administration
>             >> * Technically Sound
>             >> * Supported by the Community
>             >>
>             >> The PDP can be found at:
>             >>https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/
>             >>
>             >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be
>             found at:
>             >>https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/
>             >>
>             >> Regards,
>             >>
>             >> Sean Hopkins
>             >> Policy Analyst
>             >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>             >>
>             >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the
>             4.10 Reserved Pool
>             >>
>             >> Problem Statement:
>             >>
>             >> An inconsistent and unpredictable stream of address
>             space is an
>             >> unsuitable method of populating the waiting list
>             (4.1.8.1) and
>             >> fulfilling subsequent requests.
>             >>
>             >> Policy statement:
>             >>
>             >> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6
>             Deployment" to
>             >> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment"
>             >>
>             >> Change" When ARIN receives its last /8 IPv4 allocation
>             from IANA, a
>             >> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will be set aside and
>             dedicated to
>             >> facilitate IPv6 deployment. Allocations and assignments
>             from this
>             >> block " to "In addition to the contiguous /10 IPv4
>             block set aside
>             >> and dedicated to facilitate IPv6 deployment, all
>             returns and
>             >> revocations of IPv4  blocks will be added to the pool
>             of space
>             >> dedicated to the facilitation of IPv6 deployment.
>             Allocations and
>             >> assignments from this pool "
>             >>
>             >> Change "This block will be subject to a minimum size
>             allocation of
>             >> /28 and a maximum size allocation of /24. ARIN should
>             use sparse
>             >> allocation when possible within that /10 block." to
>             "This pool will
>             >> be subject to a minimum size allocation of /28 and a
>             maximum sized
>             >> allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse allocation
>             when possible
>             >> within the pool."
>             >>
>             >> Comments:
>             >>
>             >> Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>             >> _______________________________________________
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>             >
>             >
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