[arin-ppml] [EXT] Re: Open Petition for ARIN-prop-266: BGP Hijacking is an ARIN Policy Violation

Michel Py michel at arneill-py.sacramento.ca.us
Sat Apr 27 22:36:34 EDT 2019

> Owen DeLong wrote:
> The petition seems hopelessly frivolous in this case.

Prop-266 is indeed out of scope, IMHO.

> Jimmy Hess wrote :
> by definition,  if they are hijacking, then they are not using
> IP numbers that were assigned as part of a contract,

I don't think you can say that. If they are hijacking, they are using IP numbers that were assigned as part of a contract, that happens to be with the org that they hijack and not theirs. The hijacked prefix is most likely a contract between a RIR and another org. I think there is a reasonable expectation that if you have a contract with a RIR, this gives you the right to announce the prefixes that have been assigned to you, and there is reasonable expectation that it prohibits you to announce a prefix that has not been assigned to you.

That being said, this thing about policy violation is ridiculous. The way I see it, it's a contract violation. Policy has nothing to do with it. Now where it gets hairy is in a cross-RIR situation, where the alleged hijacked prefix is in contract with another RIR. I see it as a contract violation, therefore I oppose making it a policy violation.

> therefore ARIN has no jurisdiction to arbitrate this
> -- ARIN is not a court or law enforcement.

I agree with that. And I don’t think we want to make it so.
Do we want an Internet cop ? maybe. Do we want that cop to be the RIRs ? I don't think so.

If we want an Internet cop, the last place I would put it is in the USA.
Create it in Germany; Spamhaus and Adblockplus have survived the legal challenges there.
This hijacking thing is a reputation service.

Hi Carlos,

>> Michel Py wrote :
>> I have said recently that I thought ARIN was a little too careful
>> with potential legal liabilities (about the TAL thing)

> Carlos Friaças wrote :
> Luckly the other four RIRs didn't choose the same path, imho :-) I personally
> hope (as a RPKI user) ARIN can at some point align with the other four...

I will continue to do what I can about that, but I'm sorry I have to disagree with your petition.
_maybe_ we can do something about RPKI, if we can convince the (rightfully so) paranoid ARIN legal staff that their world will not come to an end because of it, but for prop-266 I respectfully suggest that you and Jordi are wasting your time with it. If you ever get the petition to go, you will find a growing number of opponents to it. Please stop wasting everyone's time : it goes nowhere.


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