[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments
David Farmer
farmer at umn.edu
Mon May 14 03:17:19 EDT 2018
Students in the case of a University or other school, or staff/employees in
the case of most organizations shouldn't be considered "temporary", how
about "ancillary". On the other hand guest or customers of an organizations
"temporary" seems an appropriate description and a timeframe of day or
weeks also seems appropriate.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> I disagree.
>
> For example, since a university student is one of the examples cited and
> is entirely appropriate, I would argue that even though the student may
> have the same address assigned persistently to a desktop computer in a dorm
> room for months or even years, I believe it is still within policy intent.
> As such, I believe that “temporary” without clarification as to definite
> time period is more appropriate.
>
> Does this open up some abuse possibilities and loop-holes? Sure. It does,
> but so do many of our other policies. In general we’ve decided that
> benefiting the community and creating policy with a clear intent for people
> of good will to follow is superior to attempting to address every corner
> case and close every loophole. I see no reason not to follow that modus
> operandi here.
>
> Owen
>
>
> On May 11, 2018, at 7:14 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> I'd suggest "temporary, in a timeframe of days or weeks," is what we
> should say. In my mind, implying something like 90 days would probably be
> approaching an outer limit, and many months or a year exceeds the policy
> intent we have. That said, I don't think there is a good reason for a
> bright line within the policy either.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>
>> We don’t care if temporary is taken as “hours, minutes, days, months or
>> years”?
>>
>>
>>
>> When we have the examples as “students, employees, etc.”, I think it is
>> clear the intent but removing them we are missing this piece, unless the
>> staff interprets the policy manual looking at the original “complete”
>> justification text of the policy proposal. However, that has the
>> disadvantage that the community (a newcomer) it not recalling the
>> background of the policy proposal, that’s why I was using the examples in
>> my original text.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De: *Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 17:19
>> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on
>> IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the best word would be temporary.
>>
>>
>>
>> As you have said, it denotes a connection which is transient in nature.
>> You come, you get an address while you’re connected, then you leave.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is temporary. Even if you’re there for several days (as in a hotel
>> guest network), it’s still temporary in nature.
>>
>>
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2018, at 8:29 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
>> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t think that will help, on the contrary … you can use both static
>> or dynamic mechanism for both temporary and non-temporary assignments.
>>
>>
>>
>> What I think it was clear is the differentiation between a “permanent
>> broadband service” and a temporary service (you come to your workplace and
>> get connectivity while you’re there, same if you are a “guest visitor”).
>>
>>
>>
>> So it still looks to me that “non-permanently” is more obvious? Maybe
>> “non-continuously”?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De: *Chris Woodfield <chris at semihuman.com>
>> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:19
>> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on
>> IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>>
>>
>>
>> The two terms, from my reading, are synonymous but carry different
>> implications, with the term “non-permanently” implying a longer period of
>> time than “temporarily". In practice, It will most likely be a distinction
>> built into how addresses are assigned by the organization (i.e. static or
>> dynamic assignment); would using that as our distinction be a useful avenue
>> to explore?
>>
>>
>>
>> -C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2018, at 8:07 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
>> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> When I first used “temporarily” in a preliminary version of the proposal,
>> I was argued that it is not clear then if it is “minutes, hours, days, …”,
>> so non-permanently, looks like clearer in that sense … It may be a matter
>> of not being native English speaker.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De: *ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> en nombre de John Santos <
>> john at egh.com>
>> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:01
>> *Para: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on
>> IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>>
>>
>>
>> I find the word "temporarily" even more obvious than "non-permanently".
>> If those two words don't mean the same thing, then we definitely need a
>> definition.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/10/2018 5:08 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>>
>> What will be your opinion if I amend this proposal, so it works for both
>> IPv4 and IPv6, having this text in section 2.5 (Allocate and Assign), make
>> it shorter and more generic:
>>
>>
>>
>> “A unique IPv4 or IPv6 address or a unique IPv6 /64 prefix, which is
>> non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an
>> assignment”
>>
>>
>>
>> Alternatively, if we don’t want to go so far as to define the “size”:
>>
>>
>>
>> “An IPv4 or IPv6 block of address, which is non-permanently provided to
>> third parties, shall not be considered an assignment”
>>
>>
>>
>> I didn’t found short-term defined in the NRPM. Do you still think we need
>> to define “permanently” ? I think saying non-permanently it is quite
>> obvious, but maybe folks disagree …
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *De: *ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>
>> en nombre de Jo Rhett <jrhett at netconsonance.com>
>> <jrhett at netconsonance.com>
>> *Fecha: *miércoles, 9 de mayo de 2018, 20:37
>> *Para: *<andrew.dul at quark.net> <andrew.dul at quark.net>
>> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net> <arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on
>> IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>>
>>
>>
>> "Nominative, verb indirect" isn't English ;) Clean english structure
>> would be:
>>
>> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently
>> provided to third parties shall not be considered an assignment. "
>>
>>
>> Or if you really want a descriptive phrase that modifies the nominative
>> you can get commas like so:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix, which is non-permanently
>> provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment."
>>
>> I would also argue that this phrase is very vague unless "permanently" is
>> defined elsewhere in the document. Wasn't there some phrasing around
>> short-term assignment? (sorry, too busy/too lazy to grab the entire doc
>> right now)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 6:40 PM Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net> wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to suggest that the proposed policy text be shorted and
>> clarified. I don't believe all the examples are necessary in the
>> definition section.
>>
>> Add to the end of NRPM Section 2.5 - https://www.arin.net/policy/
>> nrpm.html#two5
>>
>> Current draft text:
>>
>> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is
>> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the
>> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a
>> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or
>> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of
>> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still
>> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link
>> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly
>> or indirectly) for the actual communication.
>>
>> My suggested rewrite:
>>
>> A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided
>> to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/24/2018 11:57 AM, David Farmer wrote:
>>
>> I note that the text in question is the subject of an editorial change
>> that the AC has recently forwarded to Board for review, at a minimum the
>> policy text need to be updated to account for this editorial change.
>> Further, I do not support the text as written.
>>
>> I support a change to section 2 that is not quite so IPv6 specific and
>> focused more on the idea that providing hotspot, guest access, or other
>> such temporary access does not necessitate the making of re-assignments
>> from a policy perspective. Furthermore, such uses are not in conflict with
>> the conditions of an assignment (made by ARIN) or re-assignment (made by an
>> ISP or LIR). Also, If the details of RFC8273 need to be mentioned at all,
>> they should be someplace in section 6, not in section 2, the definitions of
>> assign, allocate, re-assign and re-allocate should remain agnostic about IP
>> version.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>>
>> On 18 April 2018 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-254:
>> Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments" as a Draft Policy.
>>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4 is below and can be found at:
>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html
>>
>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
>> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft
>> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated
>> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>>
>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>> * Technically Sound
>> * Supported by the Community
>>
>> The PDP can be found at:
>> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>>
>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sean Hopkins
>> Policy Analyst
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>
>>
>>
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>>
>> Problem Statement:
>>
>> When the policy was drafted, the concept of assignments/sub-assignments
>> did not consider a practice very common in IPv4 which is replicated and
>> even amplified in IPv6: the use of IP addresses for point-to-point links or
>> VPNs.
>>
>> In the case of IPv6, instead of unique addresses, the use of unique
>> prefixes (/64) is increasingly common.
>>
>> Likewise, the policy failed to consider the use of IP addresses in
>> hotspots, or the use of IP addresses by guests or employees in Bring Your
>> Own Device (BYOD) and many other similar cases.
>>
>> Finally, the IETF has recently approved the use of a unique /64 prefix
>> per interface/host (RFC8273) instead of a unique address. This, for
>> example, allows users to connect to a hotspot, receive a /64 such that they
>> are “isolated” from other users (for reasons of security, regulatory
>> requirements, etc.) and they can also use multiple virtual machines on
>> their devices with a unique address for each one (within the same /64).
>>
>> Section 2.5 (Definitions/Allocate and Assign), explicitly prohibits such
>> assignments, stating that “Assignments... are not to be sub-assigned to
>> other parties”.
>>
>> This proposal clarifies this situation in this regard and better define
>> the concept, particularly considering new uses of IPv6 (RFC8273), by means
>> of a new paragraph.
>>
>> 5. Policy Statement
>>
>> Actual Text
>>
>> • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or
>> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate.
>> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific
>> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties.
>>
>> New Text
>>
>> • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or
>> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate.
>> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific
>> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties.
>>
>> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is
>> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the
>> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a
>> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or
>> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of
>> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still
>> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link
>> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly
>> or indirectly) for the actual communication.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6. Comments
>>
>> a. Timetable for implementation:
>>
>> Immediate
>>
>> b. Anything else:
>>
>> Situation in other regions: This situation, has already been corrected in
>> RIPE, and the policy was updated in a similar way, even if right now there
>> is a small discrepancy between the policy text that reached consensus and
>> the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis. A new policy proposal has been submitted to
>> amend that, and the text is the same as presented by this proposal at ARIN.
>> Same text has also been submitted to AfriNIC, LACNIC and APNIC.
>> _______________________________________________
>> PPML
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota
>> 2218 University Ave SE
>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2218+University+Ave+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> Phone: 612-626-0815
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.consulintel.es
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
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>>
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>> --
>>
>> John Santos
>>
>> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
>>
>> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>>
>> _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are
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>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.consulintel.es
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
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>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.consulintel.es
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
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>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.consulintel.es
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> communication and delete it.
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE
> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2218+University+Ave+SE&entry=gmail&source=g>
> Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
> ===============================================
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML
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--
===============================================
David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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