[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments

[David Farmer]

I'd suggest "temporary, in a timeframe of days or weeks," is what we should
say.  In my mind, implying something like 90 days would probably be
approaching an outer limit, and many months or a year exceeds the policy
intent we have. That said, I don't think there is a good reason for a
bright line within the policy either.

Thanks.

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:

> We don’t care if temporary is taken as “hours, minutes, days, months or
> years”?
>
>
>
> When we have the examples as “students, employees, etc.”, I think it is
> clear the intent but removing them we are missing this piece, unless the
> staff interprets the policy manual looking at the original “complete”
> justification text of the policy proposal. However, that has the
> disadvantage that the community (a newcomer) it not recalling the
> background of the policy proposal, that’s why I was using the examples in
> my original text.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
> *De: *Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 17:19
> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6
> Sub-Assignments
>
>
>
> I think the best word would be temporary.
>
>
>
> As you have said, it denotes a connection which is transient in nature.
> You come, you get an address while you’re connected, then you leave.
>
>
>
> This is temporary. Even if you’re there for several days (as in a hotel
> guest network), it’s still temporary in nature.
>
>
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2018, at 8:29 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <
> arin-ppml at arin.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> I don’t think that will help, on the contrary … you can use both static or
> dynamic mechanism for both temporary and non-temporary assignments.
>
>
>
> What I think it was clear is the differentiation between a “permanent
> broadband service” and a temporary service (you come to your workplace and
> get connectivity while you’re there, same if you are a “guest visitor”).
>
>
>
> So it still looks to me that “non-permanently” is more obvious? Maybe
> “non-continuously”?
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
> *De: *Chris Woodfield <chris at semihuman.com>
> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:19
> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6
> Sub-Assignments
>
>
>
> The two terms, from my reading, are synonymous but carry different
> implications, with the term “non-permanently” implying a longer period of
> time than “temporarily". In practice, It will most likely be a distinction
> built into how addresses are assigned by the organization (i.e. static or
> dynamic assignment); would using that as our distinction be a useful avenue
> to explore?
>
>
>
> -C
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2018, at 8:07 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
> jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>
>
>
> When I first used “temporarily” in a preliminary version of the proposal,
> I was argued that it is not clear then if it is “minutes, hours, days, …”,
> so non-permanently, looks like clearer in that sense … It may be a matter
> of not being native English speaker.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
> *De: *ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> en nombre de John Santos <
> john at egh.com>
> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:01
> *Para: *<arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6
> Sub-Assignments
>
>
>
> I find the word "temporarily" even more obvious than "non-permanently".
> If those two words don't mean the same thing, then we definitely need a
> definition.
>
>
>
> On 5/10/2018 5:08 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
>
> What will be your opinion if I amend this proposal, so it works for both
> IPv4 and IPv6, having this text in section 2.5 (Allocate and Assign), make
> it shorter and more generic:
>
>
>
> “A unique IPv4 or IPv6 address or a unique IPv6 /64 prefix, which is
> non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an
> assignment”
>
>
>
> Alternatively, if we don’t want to go so far as to define the “size”:
>
>
>
> “An IPv4 or IPv6 block of address, which is non-permanently provided to
> third parties, shall not be considered an assignment”
>
>
>
> I didn’t found short-term defined in the NRPM. Do you still think we need
> to define “permanently” ? I think saying non-permanently it is quite
> obvious, but maybe folks disagree …
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
>
>
>
>
> *De: *ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> en
> nombre de Jo Rhett <jrhett at netconsonance.com> <jrhett at netconsonance.com>
> *Fecha: *miércoles, 9 de mayo de 2018, 20:37
> *Para: *<andrew.dul at quark.net> <andrew.dul at quark.net>
> *CC: *<arin-ppml at arin.net> <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6
> Sub-Assignments
>
>
>
> "Nominative, verb indirect" isn't English ;) Clean english structure would
> be:
>
> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided
> to third parties shall not be considered an assignment. "
>
>
> Or if you really want a descriptive phrase that modifies the nominative
> you can get commas like so:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix, which is non-permanently
> provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment."
>
> I would also argue that this phrase is very vague unless "permanently" is
> defined elsewhere in the document. Wasn't there some phrasing around
> short-term assignment? (sorry, too busy/too lazy to grab the entire doc
> right now)
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 6:40 PM Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net> wrote:
>
> I'd like to suggest that the proposed policy text be shorted and
> clarified.  I don't believe all the examples are necessary in the
> definition section.
>
> Add to the end of NRPM Section 2.5 - https://www.arin.net/policy/
> nrpm.html#two5
>
> Current draft text:
>
> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is
> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the
> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a
> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or
> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of
> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still
> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link
> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly
> or indirectly) for the actual communication.
>
> My suggested rewrite:
>
> A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided
> to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment.
>
>
>
> On 4/24/2018 11:57 AM, David Farmer wrote:
>
> I note that the text in question is the subject of an editorial change
> that the AC has recently forwarded to Board for review, at a minimum the
> policy text need to be updated to account for this editorial change.
> Further, I do not support the text as written.
>
> I support a change to section 2 that is not quite so IPv6 specific and
> focused more on the idea that providing hotspot, guest access, or other
> such temporary access does not necessitate the making of re-assignments
> from a policy perspective.  Furthermore, such uses are not in conflict with
> the conditions of an assignment (made by ARIN) or re-assignment (made by an
> ISP or LIR). Also, If the details of RFC8273 need to be mentioned at all,
> they should be someplace in section 6, not in section 2, the definitions of
> assign, allocate, re-assign and re-allocate should remain agnostic about IP
> version.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net> wrote:
>
> On 18 April 2018 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-254:
> Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments" as a Draft Policy.
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4 is below and can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html
>
> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft
> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated
> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>
>  * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>  * Technically Sound
>  * Supported by the Community
>
> The PDP can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean Hopkins
> Policy Analyst
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments
>
> Problem Statement:
>
> When the policy was drafted, the concept of assignments/sub-assignments
> did not consider a practice very common in IPv4 which is replicated and
> even amplified in IPv6: the use of IP addresses for point-to-point links or
> VPNs.
>
> In the case of IPv6, instead of unique addresses, the use of unique
> prefixes (/64) is increasingly common.
>
> Likewise, the policy failed to consider the use of IP addresses in
> hotspots, or the use of IP addresses by guests or employees in Bring Your
> Own Device (BYOD) and many other similar cases.
>
> Finally, the IETF has recently approved the use of a unique /64 prefix per
> interface/host (RFC8273) instead of a unique address. This, for example,
> allows users to connect to a hotspot, receive a /64 such that they are
> “isolated” from other users (for reasons of security, regulatory
> requirements, etc.) and they can also use multiple virtual machines on
> their devices with a unique address for each one (within the same /64).
>
> Section 2.5 (Definitions/Allocate and Assign), explicitly prohibits such
> assignments, stating that “Assignments... are not to be sub-assigned to
> other parties”.
>
> This proposal clarifies this situation in this regard and better define
> the concept, particularly considering new uses of IPv6 (RFC8273), by means
> of a new paragraph.
>
> 5.    Policy Statement
>
> Actual Text
>
> •    Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or
> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate.
> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific
> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties.
>
> New Text
>
> •    Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or
> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate.
> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific
> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties.
>
> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is
> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the
> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a
> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or
> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of
> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still
> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link
> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly
> or indirectly) for the actual communication.
>
>
>
> 6.    Comments
>
> a.    Timetable for implementation:
>
> Immediate
>
> b.    Anything else:
>
> Situation in other regions: This situation, has already been corrected in
> RIPE, and the policy was updated in a similar way, even if right now there
> is a small discrepancy between the policy text that reached consensus and
> the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis. A new policy proposal has been submitted to
> amend that, and the text is the same as presented by this proposal at ARIN.
> Same text has also been submitted to AfriNIC, LACNIC and APNIC.
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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>
>
>
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> --
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> John Santos
>
> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
>
> 781-861-0670 ext 539
>
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> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
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> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
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> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
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-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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