[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend Community Networks
owen at delong.com
Tue Jan 16 16:09:09 EST 2018
David summarized my views on the matter rather well. I am adamantly opposed to trying to make reallocations out of /40 (or longer) prefixes.
Really, a /40 is 256 /48s. Any rational reallocation would be at least a /44. Is anyone really in need of running an ISP with only 16 /48s?
I’d rather see any such ISP that is subordinate to a community network (if such a construct exists) get their space directly from ARIN under this same policy than see us daisy chaining community networks through micro-allocations in IPv6.
I’m operating under the assumption that any ISP that has a subordinate ISP that isn’t a community network isn’t really a community network, though I suppose it might be possible under the proposed rules to engineer such a thing if one tried hard enough. Nonetheless, I would argue that such a construct is a clear violation of the spirit of the policy even if you found a way to do it within the proverbial letter of the law.
> On Jan 16, 2018, at 12:57 , David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:
> I support the proposal with the exclusion of section 18.104.22.168.
> I support the proposal with the inclusion of section 22.214.171.124.
> I ask what is the purpose of section 126.96.36.199?
> Is section 188.8.131.52 needed?
> Is section 184.108.40.206 restricting the right thing?
> Without section 220.127.116.11 the policy clearly defines a community network,
> and allows what would otherwise be an LIR getting a /32 (or /36 upon request)
> get instead a /40.
> This would reduce there fees from X-small $1,000 annunally
> (or upon request 2X-small $500 annually)
> to 3X-small $250 annually.
> Sounds well and good.
> Section 18.104.22.168 adds a further restriction of there shall be no no re-allocations,
> suggesting they cannot have a user of their space which in turn has its own users.
> (for the record I think you can drop the text "to other organizations."
> and just have "However, they shall not reallocate resources.")
> What behavior are you intending to prevent?
> Section 22.214.171.124 has two parts.
> The first part says community networks are like other LIRs, they make reassignments to end-users and makes it abundantly clear that section 6.5.4 and 6.5.5 apply to community networks. I don't want anyone arguing that those sections don't apply to community networks.
> The second part is the restriction on making reallocations. This comes back to a couple of arguments; (A.) If community networks can make reallocations, then there is no difference between them and a regular ISP/LIR, and some participants in earlier discussions were adamant there needed to be a difference between community networks and regular ISPs/LIRs. (B.) From the debate on ARIN-2013-3: Tiny IPv6 Allocations for ISPs, some participants in that discussion were adamant that a /40 was too small of an allocation for an ISP, especially if that ISP was to make any reallocations.
> Doesn't the definition already have the required limits on behavior in the form of:
> "A community network is deployed, operated, and governed by its users,
> for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity to the community it services."
> It appears what you are preventing are the cases below. I ask is this what you
> intend to prevent? and if so why?
> Should the Colorado IPv6 cooperative be prevented from providing transit to the
> Rocky Mountain Spotted IPv6 community network because they in turn assign
> IPv6 addresses to community members?
> What if this is all within one community network? What if the Rocky Mountain
> Spotted IPv6 community network has a part of the network that is managed by
> a group in Ball Mountain community and another part is managed by a group in
> Mount Lincoln. Wouldn't it make sense to re-allocate some of the Rocky Mountain
> Spotted IPv6 community network's /40 to Ball Mountain community and let them
> handle the assignments to users in their locale?
> Personly, I'd be fine with removing the restriction on community networks making reallocations, but I'd still want to have section 126.96.36.199 I'd rewrite is as follows;
> 188.8.131.52. Reassignments by Community Networks
> Similar to other LIRs, Community Networks shall make reassignments and reallocations in accordance with applicable policies, in particular, but not limited to sections 6.5.4 and 6.5.5.
> What do others think should community networks be allowed to make both reassignments and reallocations, or just reassignments?
> David Farmer Email:farmer at umn.edu <mailto:Email%3Afarmer at umn.edu>
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