[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend Community Networks

[Whitestone IT]

I would prefer for community networks to be able to make reallocations; it
could enhance commercial opportunities that could help elevate the network
up to traditional ISP status.

My $.02
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:57 AM David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I support the proposal with the exclusion of section 6.5.9.3.
>> I support the proposal with the inclusion of section 6.5.9.3.
>> I ask what is the purpose of section 6.5.9.3?
>> Is section 6.5.9.3 needed?
>> Is section 6.5.9.3 restricting the right thing?
>>
>> Without section 6.5.9.3 the policy clearly defines a community network,
>> and allows what would otherwise be an LIR  getting a /32 (or /36 upon
>> request)
>> get instead a /40.
>>
>> This would reduce there fees from X-small $1,000 annunally
>> (or upon request 2X-small $500 annually)
>> to 3X-small $250 annually.
>>
>> Sounds well and good.
>>
>>
>> Section 6.5.9.3 adds a further restriction of there shall be no no
>> re-allocations,
>> suggesting they cannot have a user of their space which in turn has its
>> own users.
>>
>> (for the record I think you can drop the text "to other organizations."
>> and just have "However, they shall not reallocate resources.")
>>
>>
>> What behavior are you intending to prevent?
>>
>
> Section 6.5.9.3 has two parts.
>
> The first part says community networks are like other LIRs, they make
> reassignments to end-users and makes it abundantly clear that section 6.5.4
> and 6.5.5 apply to community networks. I don't want anyone arguing that
> those sections don't apply to community networks.
>
> The second part is the restriction on making reallocations. This comes
> back to a couple of arguments; (A.) If community networks can make
> reallocations, then there is no difference between them and a regular
> ISP/LIR, and some participants in earlier discussions were adamant there
> needed to be a difference between community networks and regular ISPs/LIRs.
> (B.) From the debate on ARIN-2013-3: Tiny IPv6 Allocations for ISPs, some
> participants in that discussion were adamant that a /40 was too small of an
> allocation for an ISP, especially if that ISP was to make any
> reallocations.
>
> Doesn't the definition already have the required limits on behavior in the
>> form of:
>>
>
>> "A community network is deployed, operated, and governed by its users,
>> for the purpose of providing free or low-cost connectivity to the
>> community it services."
>>
>> It appears what you are preventing are the cases below.  I ask is this
>> what you
>> intend to prevent?  and if so why?
>>
>> Should the Colorado IPv6 cooperative be prevented from providing transit
>> to the
>> Rocky Mountain Spotted IPv6 community network because they in turn assign
>> IPv6 addresses to community members?
>>
>>
>> What if this is all within one community network?  What if the Rocky
>> Mountain
>> Spotted IPv6 community network has a part of the network that is managed
>> by
>> a group in Ball Mountain community and another part is managed by a group
>> in
>> Mount Lincoln.  Wouldn't it make sense to re-allocate some of the Rocky
>> Mountain
>> Spotted IPv6 community network's /40 to Ball Mountain community and let
>> them
>> handle the assignments to users in their locale?
>>
>
> Personly, I'd be fine with removing the restriction on community networks
> making reallocations, but I'd still want to have section 6.5.9.3 I'd
> rewrite is as follows;
>
> *6.5.9.3. Reassignments by Community Networks*
>
> *Similar to other LIRs, Community Networks shall make reassignments and
> reallocations in accordance with applicable policies, in particular, but
> not limited to sections 6.5.4 and 6.5.5. *
>
> What do others think should community networks be allowed to make
> both reassignments and reallocations, or just reassignments?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> ===============================================
> David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
> Networking & Telecommunication Services
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
> ===============================================
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