[arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5: Improved IPv6 Registration Requirements

Michael Peddemors michael at linuxmagic.com
Fri Sep 29 10:55:57 EDT 2017


+1

On 17-09-29 06:58 AM, Jason Schiller wrote:
> David, Kevin, Alison
> 
> I am actually comfortable with an implementation that is short of 
> revocation,
> but I am still not comfortable with "should".
> 
> Should makes it optional.  Officially not being out of compliance with
> ARIN policy makes it optional.
> 
> I suggest that an ISP refusing to register a downstream customer
> is out of compliance with ARIN policy, and not just choosing to ignore
> an optional recommendation.
> 
> If it is only "should" then an ISP can still hold the moral high ground
> while refusing to support SWIP on the grounds that they will not
> implement tooling and commit resources when it is only optional.
> 
> It is a question of if you can hold someone accountable for not
> complying or if they are free to ignore something that is optional.
> 
> 
> 
> Owen, Chris, Kevin,
> 
> Certainly if there is enough support to move this forward, we shouldn't
> wait another cycle. (I recognize this weakens the "shall" position)
> 
> My hope is if we can close out the discussion of this topic at the meeting
> with a clear understanding of if there is community support to move forward
> the policy with "shall" and also if there is clear support to move the 
> policy forward
> with "should" in this cycle.  This will give the AC a maximum of 
> leverage to do
> what is needed, and insure it doesn't fall to the next cycle by forcing 
> people
> to support only what they perceive as the best option.
> 
> Assuming there is support for both "shall" and "should" the AC could
> choose to move "shall" to last call, and if there are then issues, move
> should to last call.
> 
> 
> We need to get clear on how to structure the question here.
> 
> My thoughts are
> 
> 1. Do you support the policy with "shall" if it doesn't require an extra 
> cycle
>      and support "should" in this cycle if "shall" cannot advance?
> 
> 2. Do you only support the policy as written?
> 
> 3. Do you oppose both the policy as written and with "shall"?
> 
> When considering if there is enough support to move the policy as
> written forward, the AC should consider the hands in both questions 1 & 2.
> 
> 
> I support the policy with "shall" with a fall back to "should".
> 
> __Jason
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 1:18 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu 
> <mailto:farmer at umn.edu>> wrote:
> 
>     I agree with Kevin if a bigger stick is need to ensure compliance in
>     the future we can take that step if/when there proves to be a
>     serious non-compliance issue in the future. Personally, I'm not
>     ready to threaten revocation, in this case. My intent in suggesting
>     what is now 6.5.5.4 was to crate an avenue for ARIN Staff to
>     intervene with ISPs on behalf of customers, if a customer wanted
>     their assignment registered and their ISP refused to register their
>     assignment as requested, the customer can appeal the issue to ARIN. 
>     I'm fine with that intervention being short of threatening
>     revocation, at least until their proves to be a serious issue with
>     ISP's refusing valid requests by endusers to register assignments. 
>     I think the current language provides the proper balance.
> 
>     I'm fine with the standard procedure starting with ARIN Staff
>     forwarding such complaints to an ISP requesting an explanation of
>     the situation. However, if this develops into a chronic matter for
>     an ISP, I would expect ARIN Staff to escalate the issue beyond
>     simply asking for an explanation.  Further after escalation, if the
>     matter continues to be chronic, I would expect eventually the
>     community to be altered to the situation. Probably not the specifics
>     of which ISP and customers, but at least that there is an issue and
>     some sense of the situation involved.
> 
>     Therefore, I support the policy as written. I'm not strongly opposed
>     to changing from "should" to "shall" for section 6.5.5.4, but I'd
>     prefer keeping that change in reserve, so we can go there, if there
>     proves to be serious issues with non-compliance in the future. Put
>     another way, I think voluntary compliance is highly preferred for
>     this issue, and if voluntary compliance proves insufficient, then we
>     can deal with that in the future.
> 
>     Thanks.
> 
>     On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 10:46 AM, Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca
>     <mailto:kevinb at thewire.ca>> wrote:
> 
>         I support the policy as written. ____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         If the stick isn’t big enough it appears a simple policy change
>         could be used, not just for this section but all the other areas
>         “should” is used.____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         I would like to point out that “should” is currently used 30
>         times in the NRPM. ____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         In reading John’s explanation, I can’t see “should” and “shall”
>         being considered an editorial change. To extend the policy cycle
>         to another meeting would be far worse.____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         Out of curiosity, how often has ARIN had to deal with SWIP
>         issues like this, where the other party ignored you?____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         Thanks,____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         Kevin Blumberg____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         *From:*ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>         <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] *On Behalf Of *John Curran
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, September 27, 2017 5:59 PM
>         *To:* Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com
>         <mailto:jschiller at google.com>>
>         *Cc:* arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>         *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2017-5:
>         Improved IPv6 Registration Requirements____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         On 26 Sep 2017, at 3:18 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com
>         <mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             I oppose as written. ____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             There should not be a different standard of requirement for:____
> 
>             - re-allocation____
> 
>             - reassignment containing a /47 or more addresses____
> 
>             - subdelegation of any size that will be individually
>             announced____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             which is "shall"____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             and Registration Requested by Recipient____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             which is "should"____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             I would support if they are both "shall".____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             Can ARIN staff discuss what actions it will take if an ISP's____
> 
>             down stream customer contacts them and explains that their____
> 
>             ISP refuses to SWIP their reassignment to them?____
> 
>             __ __
> 
>             Will they do anything more than reach out to the ISP and
>             tell____
> 
>             them they "should" SWIP it?____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         Jason -
> 
>             If this policy change 2017-5 is adopted, then a provider
>         that has IPv6 space from ARIN ____
> 
>             but routinely fails to publish registration information (for
>         /47 or larger reassignments) ____
> 
>             would be in violation, and ARIN would have clear policy
>         language that would enable ____
> 
>             us to discuss with the ISP the need to publish this
>         information in a timely manner. ____
> 
> 
>             Service providers who blatantly ignore such a provision on
>         an ongoing basis will be
>             in the enviable position of hearing me chat with them about
>         their obligations to follow
>             ARIN number resource policy, including the consequences
>         (i.e. potential revocation ____
> 
>             of the IPv6 number resources.)____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>             If the langauge for the new section 6.5.5.4 "Registration
>         Requested by Recipient” ____
> 
>             reads “… the ISP should register that assignment”, then ARIN
>         would send on any____
> 
>             received customer complaint to the ISP, and remind the ISP
>         that they should____
> 
>             follow number resource policy in this regard but not
>         otherwise taking any action. ____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>             If the language for the new section 6.5.5.4 "Registration
>         Requested by Recipient” ____
> 
>             reads “… the ISP shall register that assignment”, then
>         failure to do so would be____
> 
>             a far more serious matter that, if left unaddressed on a
>         chronic manner, could have ____
> 
>             me discussing the customer complaints as a sign of potential
>         failure to comply with ____
> 
>             number resource policy, including the consequences (i.e.
>         potential revocation of ____
> 
>             the IPv6 number resources.)____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>             I would note that the community should be very clear about
>         its intentions for ISPs____
> 
>             with regard to customer requested reassignment publication,
>         given there is large ____
> 
>             difference in obligations that result from policy language
>         choice.   ARIN staff remains, ____
> 
>             as always, looking forward to implementing whatever policy
>         emerges from the ____
> 
>             consensus-based policy development process. ____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         Thanks!____
> 
>         /John____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         John Curran____
> 
>         President and CEO____
> 
>         American Registry for Internet Numbers____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
>         __ __
> 
> 
>         _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     ===============================================
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com 
> <mailto:jschiller at google.com>|571-266-0006
> 
> 
> 
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