[arin-ppml] policy proposal 2017-4 removal of reciprocity requirements

Thu Sep 7 15:01:27 EDT 2017

Re: Milton
To correct potential imbalances of what Milton?
Can't be address space surely...that Arin is correcting, you...but I'm
happy to listen.

rd

On Sep 7, 2017 1:27 PM, "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu> wrote:

> I support this proposal.
>
> I am scratching my head at the apparent lack of logic in this claim:
>
> In addition, I am not convinced that it should be ARIN's role to correct
> perceived global RIR framework inbalances?
>
> The reciprocity requirement is the policy that makes it ARIN’s role to
> correct potential imbalances, not this policy. We need to remove those
> requirements.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr. Milton L Mueller
>
> Professor, School of Public Policy <http://spp.gatech.edu/>
>
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> Internet Governance Project
>
> http://internetgovernance.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> We currently have a working policy strategy in this area, and I think we
> should stick with it for now.
> rd
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2017 9:39 AM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for
>       Inter-RIR Transfers (Michael Winters)
>    2. Re: Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for
>       Inter-RIR Transfers (Kevin Blumberg)
>    3. Re: Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for
>       Inter-RIR Transfers (Mike Burns)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:21:01 +0000
> From: Michael Winters <mwinters at edwardrose.com>
> To: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity
>         Requirement for Inter-RIR Transfers
> Message-ID:
>         <947590f72de642d690bb464342a2ea16 at kz-mail01.manifold.
> edwardrosekzoo.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I am opposed to this policy.
>
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woodfield
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 5:19 PM
> To: Cj Aronson <cja at daydream.com>
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity
> Requirement for Inter-RIR Transfers
>
> This policy proposal seems, to me, as an attempt to correct a historical
> imbalance in the distribution of IPv4 resources to various RIRs, since the
> vast majority of legacy space - which, to my eyes, it seems that much of
> the transfer supply is originating from - is in the ARIN region.
>
> Given that, this policy only makes sense up to the point that such
> imbalance still exists. If we simply named the target RIRs, we could result
> in a (arguably theoretical) situation where Afrinic and Lacnic wind up
> transferring enough space to push their totals over the average but are
> still permitted to transfer space. if that were to happen, it would require
> a subsequent policy change to keep that imbalance from growing worse.
>
> As such, I support as written and would argue against an approach that
> targets specific RIRs by name.
>
> -C
>
> On Sep 6, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Cj Aronson <cja at daydream.com<mailto:cja@
> daydream.com>> wrote:
>
> Okay so this formula.. does it just give us Afrinic and Lacnic right?  So
> why don't we just say that?  Since there are only 5 RIRs it seems that
> maybe a formula isn't needed?
>
>
> {?,?}
>   (( ))
>   ?  ?
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 12:35 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net<mailto:info at arin.net>>
> wrote:
> The following has been revised:
>
> * Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Revised text is below and can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_4.html
>
> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft
> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated
> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>
> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
> * Technically Sound
> * Supported by the Community
>
> The PDP can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean Hopkins
> Policy Analyst
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Version Date: 6 September 2017
>
> Problem Statement:
>
> AFRINIC and LACNIC are currently considering one-way inter-RIR transfer
> proposals. Those RIR communities feel a one-way policy a policy that allows
> network operators in their regions to obtain space from another region and
> transfer it into AFRINIC and LACNIC may best meet the needs of the
> operators in that region.
>
> ARIN staff, in reply to an inquiry from AFRINIC, have formally indicated
> that ARINs 8.4 policy language will not allow ARIN to participate in such
> one-way transfers. The staff formally indicate to AFRINIC that the word
> reciprocal in 8.4 prohibits ARIN from allowing ARIN-registered space to
> transfer directly to AFRINIC (in this context).
>
> ARIN as a community should recognize that other RIR operator communities
> have different needs than we do. We should recognize that:
>
> - network operators in AFRINIC in LACNIC have need to obtain space in the
> market;
>
> - have reasons they think are important to not allow two-way transfers; and
>
> - we should understand that the history of the RIR system has led to
> LACNIC and AFRINIC having multiple orders of magnitude less IPv4 address
> space than ARIN does.
>
> Policy statement:
>
> Add the following sentence after the first sentence of NRPM 8.4:
>
> Inter-RIR transfers may take place to an RIR with a non-reciprocal
> inter-RIR transfer policy only when the recipient RIR has an IPv4 total
> inventory less than the average (mean) of the IPv4 total inventory among
> all of the RIRs.
>
> Timetable for implementation: Upon the ratification of any inter-RIR
> transfer policy at another RIR that is one-way as described in the problem
> statement.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net<mailto:ARI
> N-PPML at arin.net>).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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> N-PPML at arin.net>).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 12:30:22 +0000
> From: Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca>
> To: "arin-ppml at arin.net" <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity
>         Requirement for Inter-RIR Transfers
> Message-ID:
>         <7E7773B523E82C478734E793E58F69E7A52773A8 at SBS2011.thewireinc.local
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Are there active polices in the other regions that rely on this policy? I
> understand there have been discussions, however I don't know what the
> status is/was.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin Blumberg
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of ARIN
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:36 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement
> for Inter-RIR Transfers
>
> The following has been revised:
>
> * Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Revised text is below and can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_4.html
>
> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft
> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated
> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>
> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
> * Technically Sound
> * Supported by the Community
>
> The PDP can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean Hopkins
> Policy Analyst
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Version Date: 6 September 2017
>
> Problem Statement:
>
> AFRINIC and LACNIC are currently considering one-way inter-RIR transfer
> proposals. Those RIR communities feel a one-way policy a policy that allows
> network operators in their regions to obtain space from another region and
> transfer it into AFRINIC and LACNIC may best meet the needs of the
> operators in that region.
>
> ARIN staff, in reply to an inquiry from AFRINIC, have formally indicated
> that ARINs 8.4 policy language will not allow ARIN to participate in such
> one-way transfers. The staff formally indicate to AFRINIC that the word
> reciprocal in 8.4 prohibits ARIN from allowing ARIN-registered space to
> transfer directly to AFRINIC (in this context).
>
> ARIN as a community should recognize that other RIR operator communities
> have different needs than we do. We should recognize that:
>
> - network operators in AFRINIC in LACNIC have need to obtain space in the
> market;
>
> - have reasons they think are important to not allow two-way transfers; and
>
> - we should understand that the history of the RIR system has led to
> LACNIC and AFRINIC having multiple orders of magnitude less IPv4 address
> space than ARIN does.
>
> Policy statement:
>
> Add the following sentence after the first sentence of NRPM 8.4:
>
> Inter-RIR transfers may take place to an RIR with a non-reciprocal
> inter-RIR transfer policy only when the recipient RIR has an IPv4 total
> inventory less than the average (mean) of the IPv4 total inventory among
> all of the RIRs.
>
> Timetable for implementation: Upon the ratification of any inter-RIR
> transfer policy at another RIR that is one-way as described in the problem
> statement.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:39:02 -0400
> From: "Mike Burns" <mike at iptrading.com>
> To: "'Kevin Blumberg'" <kevinb at thewire.ca>,     <arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity
>         Requirement for Inter-RIR Transfers
> Message-ID: <030f01d327de$ab148cb0$013da610$@iptrading.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> LACNIC will be presented with a one-way policy proposal in Montevideo in a
> few weeks. It has failed to reach consensus twice but was returned to the
> list, so it will be voted on again.
>
> https://politicas.lacnic.net/politicas/detail/id/LAC-2017-2
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
> Blumberg
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 8:30 AM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity
> Requirement for Inter-RIR Transfers
>
> Are there active polices in the other regions that rely on this policy? I
> understand there have been discussions, however I don't know what the
> status
> is/was.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin Blumberg
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of ARIN
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:36 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Revised: ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement
> for Inter-RIR Transfers
>
> The following has been revised:
>
> * Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Revised text is below and can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_4.html
>
> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will
> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft
> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated
> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles
> are:
>
> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
> * Technically Sound
> * Supported by the Community
>
> The PDP can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>
> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>
> Regards,
>
> Sean Hopkins
> Policy Analyst
> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-4: Remove Reciprocity Requirement for Inter-RIR
> Transfers
>
> Version Date: 6 September 2017
>
> Problem Statement:
>
> AFRINIC and LACNIC are currently considering one-way inter-RIR transfer
> proposals. Those RIR communities feel a one-way policy a policy that allows
> network operators in their regions to obtain space from another region and
> transfer it into AFRINIC and LACNIC may best meet the needs of the
> operators
> in that region.
>
> ARIN staff, in reply to an inquiry from AFRINIC, have formally indicated
> that ARINs 8.4 policy language will not allow ARIN to participate in such
> one-way transfers. The staff formally indicate to AFRINIC that the word
> reciprocal in 8.4 prohibits ARIN from allowing ARIN-registered space to
> transfer directly to AFRINIC (in this context).
>
> ARIN as a community should recognize that other RIR operator communities
> have different needs than we do. We should recognize that:
>
> - network operators in AFRINIC in LACNIC have need to obtain space in the
> market;
>
> - have reasons they think are important to not allow two-way transfers; and
>
> - we should understand that the history of the RIR system has led to LACNIC
> and AFRINIC having multiple orders of magnitude less IPv4 address space
> than
> ARIN does.
>
> Policy statement:
>
> Add the following sentence after the first sentence of NRPM 8.4:
>
> Inter-RIR transfers may take place to an RIR with a non-reciprocal
> inter-RIR
> transfer policy only when the recipient RIR has an IPv4 total inventory
> less
> than the average (mean) of the IPv4 total inventory among all of the RIRs.
>
> Timetable for implementation: Upon the ratification of any inter-RIR
> transfer policy at another RIR that is one-way as described in the problem
> statement.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public
> Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public
> Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
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