[arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition of Community Network

David Farmer farmer at umn.edu
Tue Oct 3 17:48:50 EDT 2017


I don't think the intent isn't for an educational institution to use this
definition to obtain resources for their own internal use.  However, many
educational institution, libraries, and even local governments are
sponsoring or operating community networks to proving access to service
their communities. Especially important is servicing disadvantaged
students, so they can to do homework, even if they don't have access at
home, or just support their leaning outside school hours, weekend, summer
or after school, etc..  It doesn't seem completely crazy for a school
district, library, or local government to have a IPv6 block for it's
enterprise use and then a separate community network block.

Here is an article that talking about an example of the kind of thing I'm
referring to;

https://www.wired.com/story/schools-secret-spectrum-free-
internet-digital-divide/

By have a separate block for the community network's use, this
operationally facilitates he community network possibly later becoming it's
own separate organization or it could more easily be outsourced to a local
carrier in the future.

Thanks.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:59 PM, Michael Winters <mwinters at edwardrose.com>
wrote:

> I am also concerned that “educational organization” is too broad.
>
> Are we really saying that Harvard, USC, Ohio State, etc. are so cash
> strapped that they could not afford to pay the same as any other business?
>
> Yes, I know the current text covers them, I also think that is wrong.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> *From:* ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] *On Behalf Of *Jason
> Schiller
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 12:31 PM
> *To:* Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca>
> *Cc:* arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the
> Definition of Community Network
>
>
>
> Id like to come at "Information Technology services" from the opposite
> direction.
>
>
>
> I propose the following thought experiment:
>
> 1. remove "other Information Technology services" text
>
> 2. assume "providing free or low-cost connectivity" means:
>
>    A. provide transit to eyeballs to persons or entities within their
> community
>
>    B. provide transit to servers providing CDN to/from persons or entities
> within their community
>
>
>
> 3. what service is not covered?
>
>
>
>
>
> also this definition is tied to 6.5.9.
>
>
>
> Is 6.5.9 needed? useful?
>
>
>
> Is the purpose of 6.5.9 to give community networks
>
> the flexibility to choose to be an IPv6 end-user when they
>
> normally wouldn't?
>
>
>
> And if they take such option they SHALL be considered
>
> an IPv6 end-user for all ARIN matters, but will be considered
>
> an IPv4/ASN ISP/end-user as per those policies normally?
>
>
>
> So does this mean a Community network who provides transit
>
> to residents via wi-fi, could choose to be an IPv6-only service,
>
> and get an end-user /48 and pay annually $100 / year as
>
> an end-user?
>
>
>
>
>
> If that same community network was donated an IPv4 /24,
>
> and wanted to add IPv4 transit would they then hold an
>
> IPv6 assignment and an IPv4 allocation?  Does this mean their
>
> annual fees are
>
> $100 for the IPv6 end-user /48 + $250 for the IPv4 ISP 3X-Small
>
>
>
> OR
>
>
>
> just $250 for the IPv4 ISP 3X-Small (which over rides the end-user fees)
>
>
>
> OR
>
>
>
> are they billed as an end-user
>
> $100 for the IPv6 end-user /48 + $100 for the IPv4 /24
>
>
>
>
>
> Could we eliminate 6.5.9 if \
>
> 1. the 3X-small category was $100?
>
>
>
> 2.A. we change 6.5.2.1.b to read as follows:
>
> " In no case shall an LIR receive smaller than a /32 unless they
>
> specifically request a /36, /40, /44, or /48.
>
> In no case shall an ISP receive more than a /16 initial allocation."
>
>
>
> I'd support a raising of my fees if that was necessary to fix this.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___Jason
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca> wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
>
>
> I don’t have a solution for the Information Technology text, other than to
> remove it. It creates a loophole that anything could be considered a
> Community Network.
>
>
>
> Replying to your answers.
>
>
>
> 2) Is charitable organization a synonym or fall under the umbrella of
> non-profit?
>
> AD: My understanding is that this was intended as a synonym, a list of
> descriptors that could be used to define a community network.
>
>                KB: It would make sense to remove Charitable organization
> if it is only a synonym.
>
>
>
> 3) Why is the scope limited to post-secondary institution when many
> smaller communities would not have that? Could accredited educational
> institution be used instead?
>
> AD: The text has been updated to "educational institution"
>
> KB: My apologies on reading the wrong text from the website. Thanks for
> the clarification.
>
>
>
> 4) I agree with Chris W. that "play a large role" is very ambigous.
>
> AD: Do you have a suggestion of text that might be more descriptive?  For
> example would a percentage of revenue / wages ratio be applicable?   That
> was an idea, but I'm not sure one could easily come up with a ratio that
> works.
> KB: The word large could be 15%, depending on who you ask. In TCP/IP 1
> percent loss is large. A non-specific term will more than likely default to
> the lowest possible. I would suggest that majority or 50% are more
> appropriate.
>
>
>
> 5) The last sentence should be reworded completely. Critical functions may
> be handled by paid staff, implies that volunteers shouldn't handle Critical
> functions or that paid staff shouldn't handle menial work?
>
> AD: Should we substitute "Critical" with "Some"?
>
> KB: Changing Critical to Some would be fine.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Kevin Blumberg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Dul [mailto:andrew.dul at quark.net]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:45 PM
> *To:* Kevin Blumberg <kevinb at thewire.ca>; arin-ppml at arin.net
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the
> Definition of Community Network
>
>
>
> On 9/20/2017 11:01 AM, Kevin Blumberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am opposed to the policy if it includes “or other Information
> Technology services”. That would basically be any defined organization that
> has a website.
>
> Do you have a suggestion of what might be more appropriate wording?  We
> were trying to suggest that a community network might provide more than
> basic connectivity.
>
> On 9/20/2017 10:21 AM, Kevin Blumberg wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
>
>
> Is this the current text of the policy?
>
>
>
> The text on 2017-8 on the website does not match. The text below includes " or other Information Technology services" which does not appear on the website (https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_8.html)
>
>
>
> Can you please confirm which is the correct version, I have written my repsonses based on the website.
>
>
>
> 1) Can a "Volunteer Group" sign the RSA?
>
> I'll let ARIN staff answer this part.
>
> 2) Is charitable organization a synonym or fall under the umbrella of non-profit?
>
> My understanding is that this was intended as a synonym, a list of
> descriptors that could be used to define a community network.
>
> 3) Why is the scope limited to post-secondary institution when many smaller communities would not have that? Could accredited educational institution be used instead?
>
> The text has been updated to "educational institution"
>
>
>
> 4) I agree with Chris W. that "play a large role" is very ambigous.
>
>
> Do you have a suggestion of text that might be more descriptive?  For
> example would a percentage of revenue / wages ratio be applicable?   That
> was an idea, but I'm not sure one could easily come up with a ratio that
> works.
>
>
>
> 5) The last sentence should be reworded completely. Critical functions may be handled by paid staff, implies that volunteers shouldn't handle Critical functions or that paid staff shouldn't handle menial work?
>
>
> Should we substitute "Critical" with "Some"?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of Andrew Dul
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:21 AM
>
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Revised: Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition of Community Network
>
>
>
> Hello all,
>
>
>
> We will be discussing this draft proposal at the upcoming ARIN meeting in San Jose.  If you have comments on the updated draft posted below, we'd certainly like to hear from you so we can help shape the conversation in person.
>
>
>
> We have seen some support for this updated draft, but not a lot.
>
> Furthermore, have we addressed all of your concerns which you might have noted earlier on the 1st version of the policy text.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 8/24/2017 8:22 AM, ARIN wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-8: Amend the Definition of Community Network
>
>
>
> Problem Statement:
>
>
>
> The Community Networks section of the NRPM has not been used since
>
> implementation in January 2010. Proposal ARIN-2016-7, to increase the
>
> number of use cases, was abandoned by the Advisory Council due to lack
>
> of feedback. Proposal ARIN 2017-2, to remove all mention of community
>
> networks from NRPM was met with opposition by the community. Many
>
> responded that the definition of “community network” was too narrow,
>
> which could be the reason for lack of uptake.
>
>
>
> Policy statement:
>
>
>
> CURRENT NRPM TEXT:
>
>
>
> “2.11. Community Network
>
>
>
> A community network is any network organized and operated by a
>
> volunteer group operating as or under the fiscal support of a
>
> nonprofit organization or university for the purpose of providing free
>
> or low-cost connectivity to the residents of their local service area.
>
> To be treated as a community network under ARIN policy, the applicant
>
> must certify to ARIN that the community network staff is 100%
>
> volunteers.”
>
>
>
> NEW NRPM TEXT:
>
>
>
> “2.11 Community Network
>
>
>
> A community network is a network organized and operated by a volunteer
>
> group, not-for-profit, non-profit, charitable organization, or
>
> educational institution for the purpose of providing free or low-cost
>
> connectivity, or other Information Technology services to persons or
>
> entities within their community. Critical functions may be handled by
>
> paid staff, but volunteers play a large role in offering services
>
> available through community networks.”
>
>
>
> Comments:
>
>
>
> Timetable for implementation: Immediate _
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> PPML
>
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>
>
>
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> --
>
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com|571-266-0006 <(571)%20266-0006>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
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-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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