[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9: Clarification of Initial Block Size for IPv4 ISP Transfers

Andrew Dul andrew.dul at quark.net
Mon Dec 4 23:40:27 EST 2017


I would agree there is nothing special about /21, that is just where we
ended up at exhaustion. 

It is possible this draft policy doesn't do what the community wants us
to do.  I wrote this draft as a followup to the policy experience report
to continue the conversation about the issue and to correct the
inconsistency.  (Normally, I think of inconsistencies as a "bad" thing
in policy) 

Perhaps what we really do want is a more strict interpretation of the
new section 8 transfer policy?  If so we need a way to signal that to
staff.  I'd think that could happen here on this list or at a meeting
and thus no policy change is needed. 

Andrew

On 12/4/2017 2:47 PM, David Huberman wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> It’s unclear to me that /21 is the correct boundary, especially (as
> Scott Leibrand asked for) absent statistics from the staff (if any
> such stats make sense).  With section 8 policy now wholly separated
> from section 4 policy, I sort of think that it’s the staff who should
> change their practices, and follow section 8 policy as written.  
>
> Further to your problem statement, ISPs should NOT be applying under
> section 4 anymore. We know, however, from staff reports at the recent
> ARIN meeting that they still are applying.  That’s a definite problem,
> but it feels to me to be a different problem than what you are
> tackling in this draft policy proposal. 
>
> Happy to hear and be swayed by data or other arguments.
>
> David 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 4, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net
> <mailto:andrew.dul at quark.net>> wrote:
>
>> Scott,  how would you feel about this proposed updated problem
>> statement which focuses on the current issue rather than the past.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> *Problem Statement: *
>>
>> It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that there is
>> an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs. Section 4.2.2
>> notes that the initial ISP block size should be /21 whereas the
>> initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as "minimum transfer size" which
>> is effectively a /24. This causes ISP organizations to be approved
>> for different initial block size depending on if they first apply
>> apply for a transfer directly under section 8 or if they apply for a
>> block under section 4.  This policy is intended to clarify this
>> issue, by setting a consistent ISP initial IPv4 block size. It was
>> noted that ARIN staff current operational practice is to allow all
>> ISPs an initial /21 for Section 8 transfers.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/21/2017 9:19 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
>>> I’d be ok with a /21, but there’s nothing magical about that size in
>>> a post-exhaustion world. I’d rather base a loosening on actual
>>> transfer statistics, and consider doing so for both allocations and
>>> assignments. 
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net
>>> <mailto:andrew.dul at quark.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It sounds like our recollections of what we intended for ISP
>>>> initial allocations have diverged. I will admit when I drafted the
>>>> problem statement I did not go back through email to see if there
>>>> was anything about this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming we harmonize the problem statement, would you prefer the
>>>> /24 as initial no questions asked size or a /21?
>>>>
>>>> What do others prefer?
>>>>
>>>> .Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Scott Leibrand
>>>> <scottleibrand at gmail.com <mailto:scottleibrand at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe this problem statement is incorrect, and therefore
>>>>> oppose the policy proposal as-is.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.5.4 was intended (by me, as one of the authors, and in PPML
>>>>> discussions I just pulled up) to allow ISPs to transfer a /24
>>>>> without justification.  It was *not* intended to "match the
>>>>> previous policy" in 4.2.2.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.5.5 reads "8.5.5. Block size
>>>>> Organizations may qualify for the transfer of a larger initial
>>>>> block, or an additional block, by providing documentation to ARIN
>>>>> which details the use of at least 50% of the requested IPv4 block
>>>>> size within 24 months. An officer of the organization shall attest
>>>>> to the documentation provided to ARIN."
>>>>>
>>>>> The intention was that any ISP needing a /21 would need to
>>>>> "provide documentation to ARIN which details the use of at least
>>>>> 50% of the requested IPv4 block size within 24 months", with
>>>>> officer attestation to same.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that policy is deemed insufficient, and we believe it's better
>>>>> to allow transfers of up to /21 without providing documentation to
>>>>> ARIN and officer attestation of such, then this proposal would
>>>>> need to be re-written with a new problem statement justifying that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:40 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net
>>>>> <mailto:info at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     On 16 November 2017, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced
>>>>>     "ARIN-prop-244: Clarification of Initial Block Size for IPv4
>>>>>     ISP Transfers" to Draft Policy status.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9 is below and can be found at:
>>>>>     https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html
>>>>>     <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>     You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The
>>>>>     AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
>>>>>     conformance of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of
>>>>>     Internet number resource policy as stated in the Policy
>>>>>     Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>>>>>
>>>>>     * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>>>>>     * Technically Sound
>>>>>     * Supported by the Community
>>>>>
>>>>>     The PDP can be found at:
>>>>>     https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>>>>>     <https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>>>>>     https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>>>>>     <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>     Sean Hopkins
>>>>>     Policy Analyst
>>>>>     American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9: Clarification of Initial Block Size
>>>>>     for IPv4 ISP Transfers
>>>>>
>>>>>     Problem Statement:
>>>>>
>>>>>     It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that
>>>>>     there is an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs.
>>>>>     Section 4.2.2 notes that the initial ISP block size should be
>>>>>     /21 whereas the initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as
>>>>>     "minimum transfer size" which is effectively a /24. The intent
>>>>>     of the new 8.5.4 was to match the previous policy. This policy
>>>>>     is intended to clarify this issue. It was noted that ARIN
>>>>>     staff current operational practice is to allow ISPs an initial
>>>>>     /21 for Section 8 transfers.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Policy statement:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Add the following to 8.5.4
>>>>>
>>>>>     ISP organizations without direct assignments or allocations
>>>>>     from ARIN qualify for an initial allocation of up to a /21.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Comments:
>>>>>
>>>>>     a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>>     PPML
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>>>>>
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>>
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