[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9: Clarification of Initial Block Size for IPv4 ISP Transfers
Andrew Dul
andrew.dul at quark.net
Mon Dec 4 23:40:27 EST 2017
I would agree there is nothing special about /21, that is just where we
ended up at exhaustion.
It is possible this draft policy doesn't do what the community wants us
to do. I wrote this draft as a followup to the policy experience report
to continue the conversation about the issue and to correct the
inconsistency. (Normally, I think of inconsistencies as a "bad" thing
in policy)
Perhaps what we really do want is a more strict interpretation of the
new section 8 transfer policy? If so we need a way to signal that to
staff. I'd think that could happen here on this list or at a meeting
and thus no policy change is needed.
Andrew
On 12/4/2017 2:47 PM, David Huberman wrote:
> Andrew,
>
> It’s unclear to me that /21 is the correct boundary, especially (as
> Scott Leibrand asked for) absent statistics from the staff (if any
> such stats make sense). With section 8 policy now wholly separated
> from section 4 policy, I sort of think that it’s the staff who should
> change their practices, and follow section 8 policy as written.
>
> Further to your problem statement, ISPs should NOT be applying under
> section 4 anymore. We know, however, from staff reports at the recent
> ARIN meeting that they still are applying. That’s a definite problem,
> but it feels to me to be a different problem than what you are
> tackling in this draft policy proposal.
>
> Happy to hear and be swayed by data or other arguments.
>
> David
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 4, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net
> <mailto:andrew.dul at quark.net>> wrote:
>
>> Scott, how would you feel about this proposed updated problem
>> statement which focuses on the current issue rather than the past.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> *Problem Statement: *
>>
>> It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that there is
>> an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs. Section 4.2.2
>> notes that the initial ISP block size should be /21 whereas the
>> initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as "minimum transfer size" which
>> is effectively a /24. This causes ISP organizations to be approved
>> for different initial block size depending on if they first apply
>> apply for a transfer directly under section 8 or if they apply for a
>> block under section 4. This policy is intended to clarify this
>> issue, by setting a consistent ISP initial IPv4 block size. It was
>> noted that ARIN staff current operational practice is to allow all
>> ISPs an initial /21 for Section 8 transfers.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/21/2017 9:19 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
>>> I’d be ok with a /21, but there’s nothing magical about that size in
>>> a post-exhaustion world. I’d rather base a loosening on actual
>>> transfer statistics, and consider doing so for both allocations and
>>> assignments.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net
>>> <mailto:andrew.dul at quark.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It sounds like our recollections of what we intended for ISP
>>>> initial allocations have diverged. I will admit when I drafted the
>>>> problem statement I did not go back through email to see if there
>>>> was anything about this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming we harmonize the problem statement, would you prefer the
>>>> /24 as initial no questions asked size or a /21?
>>>>
>>>> What do others prefer?
>>>>
>>>> .Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Scott Leibrand
>>>> <scottleibrand at gmail.com <mailto:scottleibrand at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe this problem statement is incorrect, and therefore
>>>>> oppose the policy proposal as-is.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.5.4 was intended (by me, as one of the authors, and in PPML
>>>>> discussions I just pulled up) to allow ISPs to transfer a /24
>>>>> without justification. It was *not* intended to "match the
>>>>> previous policy" in 4.2.2.
>>>>>
>>>>> 8.5.5 reads "8.5.5. Block size
>>>>> Organizations may qualify for the transfer of a larger initial
>>>>> block, or an additional block, by providing documentation to ARIN
>>>>> which details the use of at least 50% of the requested IPv4 block
>>>>> size within 24 months. An officer of the organization shall attest
>>>>> to the documentation provided to ARIN."
>>>>>
>>>>> The intention was that any ISP needing a /21 would need to
>>>>> "provide documentation to ARIN which details the use of at least
>>>>> 50% of the requested IPv4 block size within 24 months", with
>>>>> officer attestation to same.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that policy is deemed insufficient, and we believe it's better
>>>>> to allow transfers of up to /21 without providing documentation to
>>>>> ARIN and officer attestation of such, then this proposal would
>>>>> need to be re-written with a new problem statement justifying that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Scott
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:40 PM, ARIN <info at arin.net
>>>>> <mailto:info at arin.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 November 2017, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced
>>>>> "ARIN-prop-244: Clarification of Initial Block Size for IPv4
>>>>> ISP Transfers" to Draft Policy status.
>>>>>
>>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9 is below and can be found at:
>>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html
>>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The
>>>>> AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
>>>>> conformance of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of
>>>>> Internet number resource policy as stated in the Policy
>>>>> Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>>>>> * Technically Sound
>>>>> * Supported by the Community
>>>>>
>>>>> The PDP can be found at:
>>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
>>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
>>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
>>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean Hopkins
>>>>> Policy Analyst
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9: Clarification of Initial Block Size
>>>>> for IPv4 ISP Transfers
>>>>>
>>>>> Problem Statement:
>>>>>
>>>>> It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that
>>>>> there is an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs.
>>>>> Section 4.2.2 notes that the initial ISP block size should be
>>>>> /21 whereas the initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as
>>>>> "minimum transfer size" which is effectively a /24. The intent
>>>>> of the new 8.5.4 was to match the previous policy. This policy
>>>>> is intended to clarify this issue. It was noted that ARIN
>>>>> staff current operational practice is to allow ISPs an initial
>>>>> /21 for Section 8 transfers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Policy statement:
>>>>>
>>>>> Add the following to 8.5.4
>>>>>
>>>>> ISP organizations without direct assignments or allocations
>>>>> from ARIN qualify for an initial allocation of up to a /21.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments:
>>>>>
>>>>> a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PPML
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>>>>>
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>>
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