[arin-ppml] re-org question

David Farmer farmer at umn.edu
Mon Nov 7 11:59:38 EST 2016

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:53 PM, William Herrin <bill at herrin.us> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:35 PM, David R Huberman <daveid at panix.com> wrote:
> >> "ARIN will proceed with processing transfer requests even if the
> >> number resources of the combined organizations EXCEED WHAT CAN BE
> >> with the resource holder(s) to transfer the extra number resources to
> >> other organization(s) or accept a voluntary return of the extra number
> >> resources to ARIN."
> >>
> >> I don't see an "or let you keep the extra number resources' in there.
> >
> > Correct. You also don't see a MUST in the context of MUST transfer or
> > return.  The RSA forbids it, and the community has never given ARIN such
> > power in policy.
> David,
> It's a public policy document. In the absence of language to the
> contrary, the MUST is implied. And if it's not a MUST then it's
> operational guidance that doesn't belong in a POLICY document at all.

Its debatable whether the transfer part of that clause is implied to be
mandatory or not.  However, at least for the return part of the clause, the
use of the word "voluntary" rebuts that idea. Something can't both be
explicitly voluntary and implied to be mandatory at the same time.  I say
it's debatable because I not sure how ARIN could go about forcing such a
transaction to occur between two other parties in practice.  I see how ARIN
could go about forcing a return in practice, but that is not allowed both
by policy and the RSA in the situation being discussed.

> The AC has tried to fix this text a few times, and perhaps we haven't
> done a
> > good enough job.
> You think?

What if the transfer part was made explicitly voluntary as well?  Would
that solve your worry?

Personally, I'd like to remove that clause all together, I do not see where
it is reasonable to re-justify your resources just because of a business
reorganization.  It should be sufficient to submit proper legal
documentation and demonstrate that the number resources are not the primary
thing of value being transferred or otherwise reorganized in the
transaction.  If the number resources are the primary thing of real value,
then its not really a business reorganization transaction, its number
resources transaction and the other policies should apply.

> Bill

David Farmer               Email:farmer at umn.edu
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