[arin-ppml] Transition /10

Tue Oct 20 21:20:22 EDT 2015

Personally I think we'll have a much better idea in a few months how well
the v6 deployment /10 has worked.  Up until now, it's been easier to get
(larger) general free pool allocations than space from the /10.  Now that
the free pool is exhausted, I expect to see every new entrant applying for
a block under 4.10, so we should very rapidly get some data on how easy it
is for them to get something useful.  Based on that experience and data, I
would be quite willing to consider a policy change, but up until now I
think we've been seeing exactly what we should've expected to see.

-Scott

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Karl,
>
> Just throwing it out there. My personal opinion is that the v6 deployment
> /10 is a failure and an economic limiter for new entrants and could be
> rethought.
>
> Best,
>
> -M<
>
> On Oct 20, 2015, at 20:12, Karl Brumund <kbrumund at dyn.com> wrote:
>
> Martin,
> I'm unsure what the problem is that you're trying to solve. I'm guessing
> it's `let anybody new get a /24` so they have a chance for some v4 space.
> Or maybe its have ARIN be the same as other regions (though I'd say the
> transfer process is a bigger fish for that).
> You mentioned 'reasonable and fair'. Could you elaborate a bit, as I think
> I'm not caffinated enough to follow.
>
> Thanks!
> ...karl
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Martin Hannigan <hannigan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> That was 2014. It is now near 2016. Then, we were not exhausted. Now, we
>> are.
>>
>> Here's the RIPE policy bits
>>
>>     https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-649
>>
>> Here's the ARIN policy:
>>
>>     https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html (Section 4.10)
>>
>> A brief summary.
>>
>> The RIPE policy is liberal in that every LIR (new or old) gets a /22. The
>> ARIN policy is restrictive and digs into the same old noise around needs
>> and transfer.
>>
>> We _could_ narrow this to new entrants (which does pose an antitrust
>> question).
>>
>> We _could_ also direct that incoming IANA bits be redirected to new
>> entrants as well up to the equivalent of a /8 to be parallel to other
>> regions, but I'm not sure we need a limit although.
>>
>> We _could_ limit the size of the allocation to no longer shorter than a
>> /24.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -M<
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Andrew Dul <andrew.dul at quark.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The ARIN community previously considered these ideas under 2014-16, but
>>> changing the /10 to something other than transition never had sufficient
>>> support for the AC to move it forward.
>>>
>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2014_16.html
>>>
>>> .Andrew
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2015, at 5:35 PM, Morizot Timothy S <
>>> Timothy.S.Morizot at irs.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the clarifications. In that context, assuming a new entrant
>>> is deploying IPv6, wouldn't the current policy allow them to request
>>> allocations to support that deployment. It specifically mentions needs like
>>> dual-stacked nameservers and various IPv4 life extension solutions. If a
>>> new entrant *isn't* deploying IPv6 from the start, do we really want to
>>> support them with a free pool allocation? For any needs beyond those
>>> described in the policy, there's the transfer market. I don't know that I
>>> have particularly strong feelings either way, but if we're going to reserve
>>> any general use pool at all rather than simply handing it all out to meet
>>> current need, I think it's better to tie it to demonstrated IPv6 deployment.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net
>>> <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of Spears, Christopher M.
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 10:21 AM
>>> To: Hadenfeldt, Andrew C
>>> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Transition /10
>>>
>>> NRPM 4.10 [1] dedicated /10 for IPv6 "transition"..
>>>
>>> I tossed a similar idea around with some folks at ARIN36.   Use this /10
>>> to allocate a /24 per **new** Org, and steer subsequent transactions to
>>> transfers.   That would ensure IPv4 for ~16K **new** entrants in the coming
>>> years..
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four10
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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