[arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2

Sun May 31 14:10:21 EDT 2015

I don’t think anyone has said any such thing, Milton.

What we have said is that it seems impossible to allow relaxed inter-RIR transfers within an organization in a way that preserves the anti-flip provisions the community has deemed necessary without having globally coordinated policy for the anti-flip provisions.

Whether you support having such a thing or not, that much seems to be simply the facts of the situation.

The policy in China is unrelated except to the extent that it was used as an example of a reason that relaxed transfer policy is needed.

Owen

> On May 31, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> 
> It’s very naïve for people to suggest that national policy in China is going to be affected by a global policy of RIRs.
> --MM
>   <>
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net>] On Behalf Of Rudolph Daniel
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:49 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2
>  
> >>>That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they desire to do so.<<<
> 
> Tend to agree ...It may be better addressed at global policy level if at all.
> RD
> 
> On May 30, 2015 12:00 PM, <arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>> wrote:
> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to
>         arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         arin-ppml-request at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-request at arin.net>
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         arin-ppml-owner at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-owner at arin.net>
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR       Transfers
>       to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:16:34 -0700
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>
> To: Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>>
> Cc: "arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>" <arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4
>         (Inter-RIR      Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> Message-ID: <8A9F435E-20BF-4E90-9141-99A7D93FC6EE at delong.com <mailto:8A9F435E-20BF-4E90-9141-99A7D93FC6EE at delong.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> If it were enforceable, it would address my concern.
> 
> The problem is that we are then looking to have an ARIN contract enjoin an action by the organization in another RIR which I am not sure would give us any recourse whatsoever were that contract to be violated.
> 
> That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they desire to do so.
> 
> We?ve already seen that attempting to unilaterally influence minimum policy requirements on other regions is unlikely to work. Witness RIPEs recent ?workaround? to ?compatible needs basis?. I am not especially interested in expanding this problem space.
> 
> Owen
> 
> > On May 29, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Owen,
> >
> > So does this text cover your proposal then?
> >
> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2
> > Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients)
> >
> > Date: 26 May 2015
> >
> > Problem Statement:
> >
> > Organizations that obtain a 24 month supply of IP addresses via the
> > transfer market and then have an unexpected change in business plan
> > are unable to move IP addresses to the proper RIR within the first 12
> > months of receipt.
> >
> > Policy statement:
> >
> > Replace 8.4, bullet 4, to read:
> >
> > "> Source entities within the ARIN region must not have received a
> >     transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources
> >     from ARIN for the 12 months prior to the approval of a transfer
> >     request.
> >      - This restriction does not include M&A transfers.
> >      - This restriction does not include a transfer to a wholly owned
> >         subsidiary out side of the ARIN service region
> >         if the recipient org will be required to not transfer any IP space
> >         for the remaining balance of 12 month window."
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com> <mailto:owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 28, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jason Schiller <jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com> <mailto:jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Owen,
> >>
> >> How does that differ from the policy text I sent?
> >>
> >> Can you send an idea of policy text?
> >>
> >> I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered resource for the balance of the 12 months.
> >>
> >>
> > Your proposal allows substitution.
> >
> > ARIN->Other RIR space A
> > Space B Other RIR-> Money/etc.
> >
> > I want to see substitution transfers prohibited.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >> ___Jason
> >>
> >> On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com> <mailto:owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>> wrote:
> >> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists.
> >>
> >> Owen
> >>
> >> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net> <mailto:jcurran at arin.net <mailto:jcurran at arin.net>>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com> <mailto:owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less restrictive transfer policy.
> >> >>
> >> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an external party for at least 12 months.
> >> >
> >> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of
> >> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that effect.
> >> >
> >> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated transfer
> >> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy explicit
> >> > in this regard in determination of compatibility.
> >> >
> >> > /John
> >> >
> >> > John Curran
> >> > President and CEO
> >> > ARIN
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com> <mailto:jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>>|571-266-0006 <tel:571-266-0006>
> >
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150529/10dd910c/attachment-0001.html <http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150529/10dd910c/attachment-0001.html>>
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML mailing list
> ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml>
> 
> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 119, Issue 23
> ******************************************
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net <mailto:ARIN-PPML at arin.net>).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml>
> Please contact info at arin.net <mailto:info at arin.net> if you experience any issues.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150531/810419c5/attachment.htm>