[arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2

[Owen DeLong]

I see no problem and do not consider it more than assistance if a community member is able to express a desire that they want policy to achieve and asks staff to craft language that will achieve that result.

Clearly staff will not submit the language to the PDP, but to the community member in question. At that point, the community member has all freedom to submit, modify and submit, or ignore the language provided by staff.

I have no problem with this.

I will have a problem if staff starts telling us what the outcome should be. However, having those who interpret policy provide language in response to a clear mutual understanding of intent seems highly desirable to me, so long as said language cannot be submitted directly by staff.

I think there are enough checks and balances further down in the process to prevent staff from having undue influence in this manner.

Owen

> On Jun 7, 2015, at 10:35 , Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Owen,
>  
> I don't mind staff assistance and differentiate staff from AC members, also.
>  
> In this case it was a little more than "assistance" out the outset, ("Tell me the words you'd accept")..
>  
> As it developed it was clear that Mr. Herrin would provide more than that, which I found acceptable.
>  
> Regards,
> Mike
>  
>  
>  
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Owen DeLong <mailto:owen at delong.com>
>> To: Mike Burns <mailto:mike at iptrading.com>
>> Cc: Jason Schiller <mailto:jschiller at google.com> ; arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2015 11:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2
>> 
>> I don’t see any problem with ARIN staff assisting an author in crafting language that will yield the desired staff interpretation.
>> 
>> What do you see as the problem, exactly? (I’ll note that I think your description of what John offered differs from what was actually offered which I believe is more accurately described above).
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>>> On Jun 5, 2015, at 12:36 , Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Jason,
>>>  
>>> I do object to John Curran writing a policy proposal to be submitted to the community under another person’s name.
>>> It just seems wrong to me but I could be alone in that thought.
>>>  
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: Jason Schiller [mailto:jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>] 
>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 3:30 PM
>>> To: Mike Burns
>>> Cc: William Herrin; John Curran; arin-ppml at arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2
>>> Mike, 
>>> If you object, I'm sure an AC member can be found to craft some text, and get staff and legal assessment.
>>> FWIW, if you like this restriction, I think the rjletts approach catches it all:
>>> If target registry does not allow transfers out of their RIR then
>>> reject transfer to target registry
>>> If target registry allows transfers out of their RIR to any other registry that does not allow transfers out of their RIR then
>>> reject transfer to target registry
>>> else
>>>                 accept the transfer
>>> WRT this restriction and compatible needs-based policies, you may want to do the same...
>>> If target registry does not allow transfers out of their RIR then
>>> reject transfer to target registry
>>> If target registry allows transfers out of their RIR to any other registry that  either
>>>          1. does not have a compatible needs based policy 
>>>    OR 2. does not allow transfers out of their RIR then
>>> reject transfer to target registry
>>> else
>>>                 accept the transfer
>>>  
>>> FWIW, its not just NIRs, I believe you could transfer IPs from ARIN to APNIC, and then from APNIC to RIPE.
>>> __Jason
>>> On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com <mailto:mike at iptrading.com>> wrote:
>>>> Tell me the words you'd accept as requiring transfer reciprocity and
>>>> compatibility go beyond lip service and I'll advance those words. Else
>>>> suffer the continued wagging of my finger.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bill Herrin
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Well, now, I think that's a bit too much participation to ask of ARIN's
>>>> president. I support continued finger-wagging.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> William Herrin ................ herrin at dirtside.com <mailto:herrin at dirtside.com>  bill at herrin.us <mailto:bill at herrin.us> Owner,
>>>> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/ <http://www.dirtside.com/>>
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> _______________________________________________________
>>> Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschiller at google.com <mailto:jschiller at google.com>|571-266-0006
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
> 

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