[arin-ppml] Policy Proposal Idea: Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users

Adam Thompson athompso at athompso.net
Tue Jul 14 16:03:19 EDT 2015

Further to my last message - it would be insane for me to register as an ISP, but for the very small number of delegations I'd ever do, I'd be willing to pay a (small-ish) fee for each delegation.

On July 14, 2015 2:59:16 PM CDT, Bill Buhler <bill at tknow.com> wrote:
>As a IPv4 end user I can understand why some would want this ability,
>but we have no desire to do such. What if instead policy would allow
>end users to either elect to be treated as a ISP, or pay a fee to have
>access to SWIP? This would be similar to how voting rights are
>allocated now.  BTW one right I would love to have by default would be
>a vote without paying an additional fee, but that is of course another
>Best regards,
>Bill Buhler
>TeKnowledgy, Inc. | Curing IT headaches since 2009
>675 East 2100 South, Suite 110         
>Salt Lake City, Utah 84106
>385-202-7100 office
>385-202-7101 direct / mobile
>-----Original Message-----
>From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
>Behalf Of Andrew Dul
>Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 1:12 PM
>To: Gary T. Giesen; 'Andrew Dul'; arin-ppml at arin.net
>Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal Idea: Reassignment records for
>IPv4 End-Users
>The intention is to allow for end-users to be able to add reassignment
>records to the database.  As noted in the policy proposal, this idea
>has an impact of the fee categories, because the ability to add
>reassignment records traditionally has been one of the differences
>between ISPs and end-users.
>I think we need to consider if the categories of IPv4 ISP and end-users
>have any significance now that the IPv4 free pool has been exhausted. 
>I will let ARIN staff comment on the cost/workload aspects of this
>change idea. 
>The fees themselves are the purview of the board.  Since this policy
>changes the service levels that ARIN would provide to end-users one
>might expect that the fee levels might change for organizations which
>choose to take advantage of the additional functionality.
>On 7/14/2015 8:08 AM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
>> Andrew,
>> Is it your intention to create a single class of users (ie. no more
>End-User vs ISP), or maintain the distinction? I'd like to see
>end-users be able to SWIP, but I'd don't want to see their costs
>increase because of it. Also, ISPs will argue if end-users can SWIP
>(which is probably the biggest technical distinction between the two
>right now ) and pay far less, they'll either argue their fees should be
>lowered, the end users fees should be raised, or try to game the system
>by applying as end-users.
>> Do we have any indication from ARIN staff as to what the implications
>in terms of cost/workload would be if end-users would be allowed to
>SWIP? Again, if the impact is minimal (ie no raising of end-user fees)
>and sufficient language was put around who they could SWIP to (ie only
>organizations in which the parent owns a controlling share, etc) then I
>would support this.
>> Cheers,
>> GTG
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Andrew Dul
>>> Sent: July 13, 2015 11:31 AM
>>> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
>>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Policy Proposal Idea: Reassignment records for 
>>> IPv4 End- Users
>>> The AC has been discussing the following ideas on their list and I 
>>> have drafted the following policy proposal as an outcome.  We are 
>>> posting the ideas and proposal here to PPML for community
>>> This draft has not been submitted formally to the PDP process at
>>> point.  I believed having initial feedback from the community before
>>> submitting would be a valuable addition before going into the formal
>>> You comments are welcome.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Andrew
>>> ====
>>> 1.    Policy Proposal Name: Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
>>> 4.    Problem Statement:
>>> End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create
>>> records in the number resource database.
>>> Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
>>> which could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy
>>> by allowing organizations to add additional details in the database.
>>> The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow 
>>> the creation of additional records.
>>> -    Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different
>>> within the database which is used by organizations creating 
>>> geo-location by IP address databases)
>>> -    Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a
>>> portion of their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary
>>> -    Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have
>>> with other organizations which are operating networks under 
>>> agreements with the registrant, this allows the top-level 
>>> organizations to accurately specify the organization operating the 
>>> network in the number resource
>>> database)
>>> -    More specific contact information (some organizations operate
>>> networks which don’t necessarily have the same technical or abuse 
>>> contact
>>> information)
>>> 5.    Policy statement:
>>> Create new section 4.3.x
>>> End-user organizations which have an active registration services 
>>> agreement shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the 
>>> number resource database.  Organizations shall use the guidelines 
>>> outlined in section 4.2.3 when creating reassignment records.
>>>      a.    Timetable for implementation: immediately
>>>      b.    Anything else:
>>> It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the 
>>> distinctions in the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the 
>>> ability for an organization to create reassignment records.
>>> This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it 
>>> impacts number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
>>> Below we have noted the three areas and the different
>>> A)    Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for
>>> who wish to use it
>>> This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation 
>>> process, so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be 
>>> accommodated in budget and the community supports
>>> B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information 
>>> in certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage 
>>> assertion credibly
>>> This is a policy issue.  These requirements should be vetted through
>>> the policy development process.
>>> C)    Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
>>> This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or 
>>> consultation to be held to solicit community input on desired
>>> ====
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> PPML
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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