[arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-20: Transfer Policy Slow Start and Simplified Needs Verification

Mike Burns mike at iptrading.com
Wed Sep 24 07:52:52 EDT 2014

Hi list,

+1 to what David wrote.

I would say it is a buyer's market, there are more sellers than buyers.
Also demand for transfer IPv4 is not as high as demand for free pool IPv4 in 
the previous years.
I believe this is due to companies being a litle more efficient internally.
And there have been some fairly large CGN deployments as well.

I see  no evidence of speculation in transfers, even in RIPE after they 
effectively dropped needs tests for transfers.
That last sentence should provide relief for those who have expressed this 
fear and expectation.

I wouldn't call it robust yet, as there are still too few buyers.

I agree that ARIN should become a lightweight registry service for IPv4, 
concentrating on our primary stewardship goal of registration and avoiding 
policy which works against accurate registration in the name of conservation 
which is already provided by the natural forces of a market.

This will be cheaper for ARIN, easier for everyone to understand, consonant 
with property law, result in faster transfers, a more accurate registry, 
less verbose NRPM, reduce corruption potential, and free us for policy 
development in other areas.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Huberman" <David.Huberman at microsoft.com>
To: "John Curran" <jcurran at arin.net>
Cc: <arin-ppml at arin.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2014-20: Transfer Policy Slow 
Start and Simplified Needs Verification

> John wrote:
>> A transfer policy mechanism which allows receipt up to a limit based on
>> current holdings provides far more certainty for those who wish to plan
>> for the future, as they can go to market knowing precisely that limit.
> What is the virtue of a limit?
> It's not the prevention of speculation and hoarding.  Those will always
> happen outside the view of ARIN policy.  Speculators and hoarders will
> buy blocks on the open market and simply not engage ARIN because
> there's no reason to.  Contract law makes it trivial to ignore ARIN.
> It's not conservation - there is no such thing as conservation in IPv4.
> 85% of the address space ARIN issued over the last 10 years went
> to less than 20 companies.  (At a significant penalty, I might add, to
> the little guys and especially new entrants, who got screwed in ARIN
> policy for 17 years.)
> Before anyone answers this, please ensure you're knowledgeable about
> the IPv4 market today. I am. I characterize it as VERY robust.  Tons of
> supply, with new suppliers showing up every month.  Outside of China,
> prices are low; it's a buyer's market.  There's no speculation that I can
> find, short of a one-off speculator who is a well-known fraudster. There
> is certainly hoarding by the larger companies, but ARIN policy today
> isn't stopping that, and no policy passed here can stop that. Think about
> that last sentence carefully.  ARIN policy is powerless to stop hoarding.
> So how do we write policy that helps the non-big guys?  By removing
> artificial policy barriers that require lots of paperwork with ARIN beyond
> simply, "I bought this /20 from this company, please update Whois".
> ARIN's job should simply be to verify the seller is the bona fide 
> registrant,
> and that the seller agrees to the transfer, and that the buyer signs an
> RSA and pays whatever fees are necessary to cover the costs of the
> transaction processing.
> Let's simplify ARIN processes, make ARIN policy fit the REALITY of
> network operations in a post-exhaustion world, and move on with
> talking about RPKI, DNSSEC, IPv6 and other actually important things
> that will shape our future.
> David
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