[arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

Ted Mittelstaedt tedm at ipinc.net
Mon Oct 27 17:59:45 EDT 2014

On 10/22/2014 2:38 PM, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 5:16 PM, John Curran<jcurran at arin.net>  wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 3:49 PM, Milton L Mueller<mueller at syr.edu>  wrote:
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> "ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's
>>>>> number holdings in the region(s) of proposed use"
>>>> I feel it should be eliminated. As it was mentioned at the microphone
>>>> in the Baltimore meeting, ARIN isn't consistent in applications of
>>>> language like and appear to be widely abused. ARIN already has
>>>> Section 12. Why is that not good enough?
>>> I agree with Marty here. We could eliminate that, if you all think Section 12 is enough.
>> Milton -
>> Note that NRPM Section 12 provides only that "ARIN may review the current usage
>> of any resources maintained in the ARIN database." - it would not appear that
>> this language provides ARIN the ability to request information and utilization
>> on resources held in other regions, as envisioned by the present 2014-1 draft
>> policy text.
>> If you wish to drop the language pertaining to obtaining a list of applicants
>> number resources and rely on NRPM 12 for this purpose instead, then it would
>> appear necessary to revise NRPM 12's scope to cover resources held outside of
>> the region.  This community may want to carefully consider the merits and
>> issues with each potential approach before deciding one way or the other.
> Not sure why ARIN needs to know what other RIR resources are in use by
> a company or what their utilization rate is beyond the public whois
> database(s). If I'm in compliance with the other RIR's policies its
> none of ARINs business outside of how I am using _their_ resources.
> Section 12 should be more than adequate for their needs*.
> This also continues to contain broken language with respect to
> internet operational realities.

If such broken language existed then John Curran would have certainly 
spoken up by now.


> Why should ARIN dictate what facilities and services I can and can't
> use to justify resources? Ex: "The services and facilities used to
> justify the need for ARIN resources that will be used out of region
> cannot also be used to justify resource requests from another RIR."
> How will they even know? I don't give the other RIRs permission to
> share data and I don't give them permission to share data. I also have
> facilities and services (data centers, circuits, etc) that use ARIN
> resources along side with RIPE/APNIC/etc resources. This work is
> technically unsound.
> Most of this policy is a regurgitation of other policies or concepts
> that already exist (ex: sign an officer attestation). Recycling seems
> to only make this work worse.
> Best,
> -M<
> * Why don't we instead develop a needs test that ARIN must meet in
> order to get any information from anyone?
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