[arin-ppml] Fwd: [ARIN-20140107-F1419] Fraud Report on CloudRadium LLC

Owen DeLong owen at delong.com
Thu Oct 16 01:03:12 EDT 2014

On Oct 14, 2014, at 16:16 , Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net> wrote:

> On 10/14/2014 1:28 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 2014, at 19:31 , Adam Thompson<athompso at athompso.net>
>> wrote:
>>> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The following represents my personal
>>> opinions only at this time.
>>>> From a Canadian standpoint, ARIN is extremely (ridiculously!)
>>>> afraid of being sued in civil court.
>>> They do have to operate in the USA, however, and that country is
>>> well-known for being very litigious, so perhaps this aspect of
>>> ARIN's behavior is justified.
>> Or perhaps ARIN should relocate to Canada or another nation within
>> the region which has a more suitable legal framework.
>>> In any case, the end result is that what they need as "proof" of
>>> fraud is MUCH more stringent than what you might expect. They
>>> cannot assume you are being truthful in reporting this fraud,
>>> whether you are or not. They also cannot assume you fully
>>> understand what constitutes fraud, whether you do or not.
>> Regardless of litigation implications, I think it is important for
>> ARIN to exercise extreme caution in revoking resources in response to
>> a fraud report. While I agree that they may be a little too cautious,
>> I certainly don't want to see the other extreme where an
>> unsubstantiated report can result in a revocation of number
>> resources.
> Please keep in mind, Owen, the poster was complaining about ARIN's
> apparent LACK of investigation of his fraud report.  Extreme
> caution is not the same thing as complete lack of progress of
> investigation.

I don't believe for one second that ARIN is not investigating his report.

> You cannot make the claim that ARIN is just going slowly as a defense
> against an accusation that ARIN isn't going at all.

Sorry, I didn't give that particular accusation sufficient credibility to respond to it.
Instead, I presumed that to be a perception issue vs. ARIN actually not moving
at a pace that would satisfy the poster.

> We all want ARIN to exercise extreme caution in revoking resources
> in response to a fraud report.
> But, there's no justification in the universe for IGNORING a fraud report, which is what the poster is saying that ARIN is doing.

That may be his claim, but I don't believe it for a second.

> At the least, don't you think ARIN should have gotten back to the fraud
> report submitter and confirmed receipt of the report, and asked some
> questions to clarify aspects of the report?

I will accept that ARIN may not have communicated as well as they should have with the reporter. Perhaps the reporter should take this issue up with Mr. Curran.

> We had a situation in my city, the story just broke as a matter of fact,
> last week, about a group of tow truck drivers in cahoots with an
> owner of several wrecking yards who were crushing stolen cars.  A city
> employee was also involved.


> This had been going on for the last 20 years or so.


> The story broke a week AFTER the police chief announced his resignation.
> The police department and DMV and other officials involved all tried
> to pull that BS excuse that they had been investigating it all this
> time.  But the paper that broke the story published addition info
> showing that this was a big fat lie, they had only started an investigation a year ago.

So you apparently had an incompetent (or worse) chief of police. Not sure what this has
to do with the current ARIN situation unless you are claiming that the ARIN staff is
similarly corrupt or incompetent (which I don't believe for a second).

> I would guess more heads will roll on this besides the police chief.

I am not sufficiently familiar to provide useful comment.

> If ARIN wants to play that game then we can look forward to ARIN
> officials losing their jobs as well.

I seriously doubt that ARIN is playing that game. However, if it is discovered to be the
case, then I would definitely want to see everyone involved removed from their positions
or worse. It would be a huge betrayal of the community's trust.

> Just a little food for thought.

I don't think there's much nutrition to be had here.


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