[arin-ppml] [ARIN-20140107-F1419] Fraud Report on CloudRadium LLC

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

Scott,

OK if that isn't going to work then if we are going to allow 
out-of-region requests to be filed by ARIN that ARIN should give the RIR 
in that region power to revoke IP addressing assignments.

So for example, Cloud Radium in China gets it's IP from ARIN and
sits on it.

4 years from now APNIC is utterly out of IPv4 and reviews ARIN's 
holdings in APNIC's region and discovers the CloudRadium holdings are 
fraudulent - and revokes them.  ARIN now gets a bunch of IPv4
which it can then assign to more customers in APNIC's region.


Ted


On 10/14/2014 4:29 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote:
> Such a percentage was proposed last year, and rejected by the community.
>
> ARIN-2014-1 proposes to allow out of region use.  Based on the
> discussion in Baltimore, I think it would be appropriate to have an
> absolute minimum amount of in-region resource use before an organization
> qualifies to count its out-of-region use toward its total requirements.
> I think a good threshold is a /22 for IPv4, a /44 (or /48) for IPv6, or
> 1 ASN, respectively.
>
> Would that address your concern?
>
> -Scott
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at ipinc.net
> <mailto:tedm at ipinc.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 10/14/2014 3:56 PM, John Curran wrote:
>
>         On Oct 13, 2014, at 19:31 , Adam Thompson<athompso at athompso.net
>         <mailto:athompso at athompso.net>__>  wrote:
>
>
>             John, or Leslie, or any other board or staff:
>             Has ARIN considered - and possibly rejected - any of these
>             options:
>             1. Developing a dedicated Fraud investigation department or
>             team, or
>
>
>         This can be done, but it will not yield any different results in
>         the case
>         of an organization that is "making fake contracts with unexists
>         or imaginable
>         customers and making up the equipment list and purchase
>         invoices, which make
>         their business looks like the same as the real one." (as stated
>         by xiaofan)
>
>             2. Hiring translators and/or bilingual or "bicultural"
>             (spell check OK'd that so I guess it's a word!) staff to
>             mitigate the difficulty in doing these investigations, or
>             3. Outsourcing foreign fraud investigations, possibly with
>             the assistance (direct or otherwise) of the relevant RIR?
>
>
>         We actually have very good working relationships with the other
>         RIRs for
>         this reason, and have asked for assistance as needed for
>         translation and
>         data verification... This is rather labor intensive, and will
>         not uncover
>         fabricated data that has been diligently prepared, as
>         verification of both
>         customer and business contact information is exceedingly
>         difficult in some
>         countries outside of the ARIN service region (even if undertaken
>         by the RIR
>         servicing that area.)
>
>         We have been able to detect fraudulent applications that were
>         similar in
>         character to this case (and do reject such), but we routinely
>         see these
>         sorts of requests, i.e. ones backed by nominal in region
>         presence and
>         entirely out of region customer demand.
>
>
>     Perhaps a policy proposal of a requirement of 70% of IP numbering
>     requested must be used for in-region demand, would be in order?
>
>     Ted
>
>
>         FYI,
>         /John
>
>         John Curran
>         President and CEO
>         ARIN
>
>
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