[arin-ppml] Fwd: [ARIN-20140107-F1419] Fraud Report on CloudRadium LLC

[Owen DeLong]

On Oct 13, 2014, at 19:31 , Adam Thompson <athompso at athompso.net> wrote:

> Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. The following represents my personal opinions only at this time.
> 
> 
> >From a Canadian standpoint, ARIN is extremely (ridiculously!) afraid of being sued in civil court.
> They do have to operate in the USA, however, and that country is well-known for being very litigious, so perhaps this aspect of ARIN's behavior is justified.

Or perhaps ARIN should relocate to Canada or another nation within the region which has a more suitable legal framework.

> In any case, the end result is that what they need as "proof" of fraud is MUCH more stringent than what you might expect. They cannot assume you are being truthful in reporting this fraud, whether you are or not. They also cannot assume you fully understand what constitutes fraud, whether you do or not.

Regardless of litigation implications, I think it is important for ARIN to exercise extreme caution in revoking resources in response to a fraud report. While I agree that they may be a little too cautious, I certainly don't want to see the other extreme where an unsubstantiated report can result in a revocation of number resources.

> Righteousness is not relevant in the US legal system. Whether it should be or not is left as an exercise for the American reader of voting age...

Yes... Righteous was thrown out decades (centuries) before we started throwing out other concepts people take for granted such as the idea that allowing people to buy elections is wrong (now it's a first amendment right) or that corporations are not people (now they are not only people, but they are people entitled to the full protections of the bill of rights, even where it does not make sense, but especially including this new first amendment right to purchase elected officials and elections).

Owen