[arin-ppml] [arin-discuss] Term Limit Proposal

Bill Darte billdarte at gmail.com
Wed Mar 26 14:53:38 EDT 2014


Scott said:
"IMO the AC tends to be a little bit slow to incorporate new ideas and
approaches.  More new faces would help with that.  We also tend a little
bit toward becoming a social and travel club.  I don't think that is a
serious problem, yet, but I definitely worry about how many of us stay on
the AC because we like our colleagues and because we like to travel, rather
than because we like to talk about, write, and improve ARIN policy.  I
definitely see that most new AC members are more inclined to spend our time
together talking about policy than most AC members with longer tenures."


Scott, I am interested to know more about what you consider examples of new
ideas and approaches.... given the highly scripted role of the AC in
support of the PDP, and given the schedules for AC and ARIN meetings, our
standing rules and Robert's Rules all guiding our process and activities.
 Also, we as a body are most often criticized IMO for being too liberal in
our interpretations and support for policy proposals that are re-hashes of
ideas disposed of in the past or for continuing to engage with proposals
that are 'moving deck chairs' or v4 exhaustion which the community has
consistently asked us to stop doing.  I'm sure many would say our workload
is artificially high now.

I do not agree that the AC is tending toward becoming a social and travel
club...I think everyone takes their duties and role in travel seriously,
but I find no fault with people endeavoring to know one another better, to
understand where they are coming from and to build relationships.  More
quality change comes through trust than any other organizational or
technical skill IMO. And, listening is as important a skill as is speaking
when it comes to understanding policy issues and other's perspectives.

In our volunteer role, we all spend a great deal of time with policy
proposals and policy discussion at meetings and in between.  If we have our
different approaches and a diversity of people on the AC, you can thank the
founders of ARIN and the electorate of the membership community.  It seems
to me your are arguing for less diversity in approaches than more in some
ways.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Scott Leibrand <scottleibrand at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Chris Grundemann <cgrundemann at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 7:05 AM, Scott Leibrand <scottleibrand at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> IMO the problem (for the AC, not the BoT) is that all turnover comes
>>> from resignations and people deciding not to run again.  It's very rare
>>> that an incumbent fails to get re-elected.  Given what I've observed as an
>>> AC member of the large diversity in contribution levels from my colleagues
>>> on the AC,
>>>
>>
>> That is an observation, perhaps even a situation, but not by itself a
>> problem. From my perspective it simply indicates that the community does a
>> great job selecting winning candidates initially, those candidates go on to
>> be solid AC members, and therefor continue to win elections...
>>
>
> That is a valid interpretation, but my perspective is slightly different.
>  I would say it indicates that the community *likes* the people it elects
> to the AC.  I think that personal popularity has a disproportionate impact
> in re-electing AC members.  It would be better if more information were
> readily available to the membership, so they could base their choices on
> things like accomplishments and voting records.
>
>
>> both new and old, that's evidence to me that the membership is
>>> re-electing members who are less effective, and we're therefore not getting
>>> the benefit of
>>>
>>
>> How is it evidence that the membership is re-electing members who are
>> less effective? Are you saying that YOU are less effective now then in your
>> first two terms? If not you, than who?
>>
>
> Yes, I actually am saying that.  I still believe I am highly effective,
> but I found myself "coasting" a bit over the fall/winter, and putting in a
> lot less effort than I had in my first few years.  I believe I have mostly
> corrected that now, but I definitely see the tendency to start coasting
> after a certain amount of time, both in myself and other AC members.
>
>
>>
>>
>>> new ideas and approaches, and the higher willingness to take on
>>> difficult work, that new AC members tend to provide.
>>>
>>> Reviewing the results of all the elections since 2007, when I was
>>> elected, I see:
>>>
>>>     Year Re-elected Newly Elected Newly appointed NOT Re-elected Notes
>>> 2013 4 1 1   2012 4 1 1   2011 4 1 1 3-year incumbent not re-elected
>>> 2010 3 2 1 1-year appointed incumbent not re-elected  2009 3 2 1   2008
>>> 2 3   2007 3 2
>>> As you can see, there has only been a single full-term incumbent who was
>>> not re-elected, and that was in a year when there were 5 incumbents on the
>>> ballot.
>>>
>>
>> I see that at least one new person joins the AC EVERY YEAR. Out of five
>> open positions a minimum 20% turnover is actually pretty fantastic.
>>
>
> Closer to 13% on average (2 AC members out of 15) each year (with a range
> of 7-20%), almost all from attrition.  If we had even 3% of full-term
> incumbents getting replaced by challengers (1 every 2 years), I would be
> quite happy.  But it's actually less than 1%.  IMO that's too low.
>
>
>>> I think term limits (1 year off after 2 terms) would help get more new
>>> people, with new ideas, approaches, and energy, onto the AC, without unduly
>>> sacrificing experience and continuity.
>>>
>>> Of course, there may be other better ways to accomplish the same thing,
>>> so I'd love to hear other ideas for how we can get more fresh faces onto
>>> the AC.  Maybe we could tweak the election process somehow?  One idea I
>>> just had would be to allow advisory input (some sort of straw poll) from
>>> PPML participants that is published for the ARIN membership to review when
>>> casting their votes?
>>>
>>
>> As others have asked, and you have failed to answer - what is the
>> _problem_ we are trying to solve here? Capable AC members being re-elected
>> is NOT a problem.
>>
>
> Here are some of the problems I see with the AC.  I think term limits
> would help with all of them, though it wouldn't be a panacea, and it may be
> possible to come up with better solutions to each one of them:
>
> IMO the AC tends to be a little bit slow to incorporate new ideas and
> approaches.  More new faces would help with that.  We also tend a little
> bit toward becoming a social and travel club.  I don't think that is a
> serious problem, yet, but I definitely worry about how many of us stay on
> the AC because we like our colleagues and because we like to travel, rather
> than because we like to talk about, write, and improve ARIN policy.  I
> definitely see that most new AC members are more inclined to spend our time
> together talking about policy than most AC members with longer tenures.
>
> Maybe another solution would be to reconsider whether we really need a
> 15-member AC in the first place.  In all of the other RIRs, they simply
> have a policy working group chair and co-chair, and then interested members
> of the community do all of the heavy lifting on policy, and on getting a
> consensus in the community.  An alternative to think about (and maybe
> discuss in Chicago) might be to have proposal authors and wg chairs
> select one or more shepherds for each policy proposal, and assign the
> shepherd the role of working with the author and community to try to
> actively forge a consensus?   I'm not sure if that's a good solution or
> not, but it's food for thought, anyway...
>
> -Scott
>
>
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