[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

lar at mwtcorp.net lar at mwtcorp.net
Wed Jun 11 11:48:28 EDT 2014

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:07:11 -0700
  Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 13:39 , Elvis Velea <elvis at velea.eu> wrote:
>> On 10/06/14 22:15, lar at mwtcorp.net wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:11:15 +0000
>>> Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>>>> Get used to it because even if this Community doesn’t relent and ease up on needs requirements, the marketplace will take up the 
>>>>slack outside of ARIN - and a 2nd (or more) defacto marketplace will be created.  It is inevitable and short of a law being past 
>>>>you and I can’t stop it.  As you probably know this is already happening with the IP brokers out there and I could easily see 
>>>>another RIR who is out of resources joining up with significant 3rd party brokers to fill IPv4 needs at market prices worldwide. 
>>>>There is another supply of IPv4 resources out there in the form of all those Legacy /8’s that were given out many years ago, and 
>>>>I suspect that demand will bring some of those resources to market.  That supply could defer switching to IPv6 for years and not 
>>>>everyone likes IPv6.
>>> Larry: Then maybe the discussion we should be having is how to reclaim un-needed IPV4 space.
>> this discussion should have happened 10 years ago. Now, it's too late.
> This discussion happened 20 years ago and it was too late then.
> The determination at the time was the same as it is now... The real solution is to deploy IPv6. Reclaiming IPv4 addresses would 
>result in only a few (perhaps several) months worth of address supply and would tie up vast amounts of human and capital 
>resources that should be much better spent on IPv6 rollout.
Larry: I took Steven's post as "If you don't make policy this way we're going to ignore it", My reply was intended to say
        then we need to put more teeth in the policy. I can't think there is any future in either.

>> Everyone knows that IP addresses are worth a buck or two.. The marketplace exists and at least 3 RIRs acknowledge it and their 
>>communities have built policies for it. Would you give them up if you would be having a (large) number of unused IPs; IPs that 
>>may bring your organization the money needed to invest in new equipment and skills and migrate to IPv6 :)
> The market was accepted as a low-cost alternative to reclamation. Essentially, it is a stop-gap for those most determined to 
>avoid a true solution.
Larry: I personally believe that the proposal of liberalizing transfers of up to /20 (as compared to a /16) a generous compromise 
       would support that as a fair start. In the mean time IPv6 is slowly marching forward.
> Owen

Larry Ash
Network Administrator
Mountain West Telephone
123 W 1st St.
Casper, WY 82601
Office 307 233-8387

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