[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

Elvis Velea elvis at velea.eu
Tue Jun 10 18:03:29 EDT 2014

Hey Cathy,

I know that ARIN was the first RIR to have transfers allowed by policy.
I also know there have been a few organizations that have returned 
addresses. Even a /8 was returned not long time ago (I think just a /16 
was still used by the organization).

I was just answering to the question on whether ARIN (or any other RIR) 
should do more to reclaim unused addresses back. My opinion is that time 
has passed.
  I think that now, once everyone knows there's a possible profit to be 
made out of the IPs and since the policies allow transfer of unused 
space, it will be very difficult to reclaim address space (and I'm not 
even talking about legacy space, I'm talking about space that was 
allocated by ARIN).

The RIRs have always said that even if they reclaim the unused space, it 
will only increase their free pool with such amounts that it will take 
with just a few weeks (maybe months) longer to reach exhaustion.


On 10/06/14 23:47, CJ Aronson wrote:
> Elvis..
> ARIN has had 8.3 transfers since 2009.  We long ago accepted that 
> there would be a market for IP addresses.  I believe ARIN was the 
> first RIR to have such a policy.  The link to the archive is here
> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2009_1.html
> Soon after we worked on the listing service as well.   This policy has 
> been used and I am sure the ARIN staff has numbers of how many such 
> transfers have taken place.
> Just because this region has historically been in favor of justified 
> need doesn't mean that folks haven't accepted that there would be a 
> market.
> Thanks!
> ----Cathy
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Elvis Velea <elvis at velea.eu 
> <mailto:elvis at velea.eu>> wrote:
>     On 10/06/14 22:15, lar at mwtcorp.net <mailto:lar at mwtcorp.net> wrote:
>         On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:11:15 +0000
>          Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com
>         <mailto:SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>> wrote:
>             Get used to it because even if this Community doesn’t
>             relent and ease up on needs requirements, the marketplace
>             will take up the slack outside of ARIN - and a 2nd (or
>             more) defacto marketplace will be created.  It is
>             inevitable and short of a law being past you and I can’t
>             stop it.  As you probably know this is already happening
>             with the IP brokers out there and I could easily see
>             another RIR who is out of resources joining up with
>             significant 3rd party brokers to fill IPv4 needs at market
>             prices worldwide. There is another supply of IPv4
>             resources out there in the form of all those Legacy /8’s
>             that were given out many years ago, and I suspect that
>             demand will bring some of those resources to market.  That
>             supply could defer switching to IPv6 for years and not
>             everyone likes IPv6.
>         Then maybe the discussion we should be having is how to
>         reclaim un-needed IPV4 space.
>     this discussion should have happened 10 years ago. Now, it's too late.
>     Everyone knows that IP addresses are worth a buck or two.. The
>     marketplace exists and at least 3 RIRs acknowledge it and their
>     communities have built policies for it. Would you give them up if
>     you would be having a (large) number of unused IPs; IPs that may
>     bring your organization the money needed to invest in new
>     equipment and skills and migrate to IPv6 :)
>     cheers,
>     elvis
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