[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

McTim dogwallah at gmail.com
Thu Jun 5 09:52:26 EDT 2014

On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> On Jun 4, 2014, at 8:16 AM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:
> > Hi Blake,
> >
> > We can be wistful for the lack of progress of RPKI or the fact that
> addresses are regularly routed for customers who are not the Whois
> registrants, but we are powerless to change those things, community-wide.
> >
> > We are a community of private network operators for the most part. We
> are stakeholders tasked primarily with maintaining a registry of uniqueness
> of IP addresses. We need to ask ourselves whether the purported benefits of
> maintaining a needs-test for every change of registrant in Whois is worth
> the risk to the registry and the expenditure of fungible ARIN staff
> resources.
> >
> > I elucidated one such risk, which is the risk of un-registered
> acquisitions of shell corporations which are incentivized by the lack of a
> needs test. John Curran acknowledged this risk.
> >
> > I offered an example of one of the few publicly demonstrable cases of
> this in Whois, related to the public information surrounding the
> Microsoft/Nortel deal. I am aware of many more but can not disclose them.
> >
> > People seek to frame this issue as if it were this question: "Should we
> change the rules just because some people will break them?"
> >
> > My answer to that is yes, of course we should, unless the rule provides
> some overriding benefit.
> >
> > So my question for the community is "What is the benefit we realize by
> insisting on ARIN team review of every single transfer, down to /24, and is
> it worth ARIN ticket time delay and the risk of decreased Whois accuracy?”
> The benefit is preserving addresses on a fair basis for those who actually
> have legitimate and quasi-immediate use for them.
> Yes, this benefit is worth the ARIN ticket time and delay.


> There has not yet been any actual evidence presented to show that the risk
> to whois accuracy is any greater without this proposal than it is with it.
> Those that would ignore ARIN policy to effectuate a transfer are just as
> likely IMHO to ignore whois as not.
> > And secondarily, what size of un-needs tested transfer would be an
> acceptable balance between the benefits of the needs test and the costs of
> the needs test?
> /24 seems like a perfectly reasonable balancing point to me.

Also Agree.


"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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