[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

Elvis Velea elvis at velea.eu
Wed Jun 4 21:35:29 EDT 2014

Hi David,

even further... for those that do not know yet, any legal or private 
person can become a member of the RIPE NCC while the ARIN 
policies/procedures still require a company to have a legal presence in 
the ARIN region in order to request resources.

And, btw.. have I already mentioned that the RIPE Community has 
completely removed the demonstrated need from their policy? I think I 
was only discussing this matter in the APNIC mailing lists and maybe 
those subscribed to this mailing list should also be aware of.


On 05/06/14 03:30, David Huberman wrote:
> I agree completely, Elvis.  There's an argument to be made that if ARIN won't be flexible with transfer policy, that RIPE becomes the most useful RIR for operators to work within.  There's a further argument that's been made that the time for regional IRs may be passed (past?) and that IETF should review the situation.
> David R Huberman
> Microsoft Corporation
> Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS)
> ________________________________________
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net <arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> on behalf of Elvis Velea <elvis at velea.eu>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:21:52 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
> Hi David,
> On 05/06/14 02:21, David Huberman wrote:
>> We're going to be a cross-roads very soon.  ARIN is going to exhaust, and network operators will be unable to obtain additional IPv4 address blocks from ARIN.  At that point, the most obvious solution for IPv4 needs will be the market.
> And then, they will be able to register as RIPE NCC members (LIRs) and
> receive as many IP addresses as they want without having to prove any
> demonstrated need. All they will need to do is to confirm that they will
> use these addresses for themselves or their customers.
>>    Proper stewardship of the ARIN function demands that ARIN policy adjust to what happens in the market.  It's not the other way around, if only because that's not how markets work.
>> The ARIN CEO, ARIN's General Counsel, the Harvard economist ARIN pays, professors who study markets, brokers who operate in the market, and buyers and sellers who buy and sell in the market have all told the ARIN community the same story for around 5 years now: the market is going to act as a market, and ARIN policy needs to be ready for it; ARIN policy needs to make sense with the dynamics of the market.
>> It's hard to know how to argue with operators like Owen and the Google folks who all say the opposite; that ARIN policy should stick to the same ideals as 1995 (important ideals for a very long time!) and not adjust.  I fear the results of this kind of ostracism :(
> Well, then let them slowly kill the ARIN function. If all ARIN members
> can no longer get resources and they stop paying and go to the cheapest
> RIR (which btw is RIPE NCC with EUR1600/year no matter how many
> resources one has) and get as many resources they want... what do you
> think will happen?
> cheers,
> elvis
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