[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

Mike Burns mike at iptrading.com
Tue Jun 3 15:51:46 EDT 2014

Retaining the needs policy will result in a Whois filled with zombie corporations, resuscitated from the dead, alive only in the sense of their Whois listing and (sometimes) up-to-date corporate filing.  These zombie corporations will be owned by companies like David’s, whose business decisions drive them towards non-policy-compliant address transfers.  Whois will not be updated.

Kind of like how all the addresses sold by Nortel to Microsoft in 2011 were registered not to Nortel, but to zombie companies acquired by Nortel along the way.  Had not Microsoft elected to negotiate a secret modified Legacy Registration Services Agreement with ARIN, and instead simply routed the addresses, we would still see the zombified Bay Networks in Whois. And when and if Microsoft sold those addresses to another party, Bay Networks would live on.

Please note these are entirely legal business transactions, and to add to the discussion at NANOG today, in my experience I have never had an upstream fail to route addresses for a customer whose name did not match the Whois registrant. Sometimes (usually, actually) they will require an LOA. But as long as the block is not advertised anywhere else, why would any upstream decide to stick a finger in their customer’s eye by refusing to route them, since the LOA covers any conceivable legal risk to the upstream.

Large or small companies, I have never seen them refused. What’s more, I think any upstream that does refuse knows that their competition will not, which along with customer circuit revenue drives their decision. 

Mike Burns

From: David Huberman 
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 3:31 PM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net 
Subject: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

We had a discussion today at NANOG in the ARIN PPC about needs-basis in 8.3 transfers.  


I’d like to state the following, and then let’s see where the discussion takes us:


My team runs an AS. And yep, we’re a pretty big company.  We rely on IPv4 today for most of our numbering, and will continue to do so for the next couple of years.[1]  In the coming year, when we can’t get space from ARIN or other RIRs, we have to turn to the market for our IP address needs.   We may choose to buy more than a 2 year supply, because it may make business sense for us to do so.   ARIN policy, however, only allows us to take the IP addresses we buy and transfer the portion which represents a 2 year need.   The rest will remain in the name of whoever sold the IP addresses to us. 


Why is this result good for the operator community?  Wouldn’t it be better if ARIN rules allowed us to transfer into our name all the IP addresses which we now own?





[1] We’re working on increasing IPv6 presence in our network and our products, but large corporations move slowly ;)


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