[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

[McTim]

On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:09 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> Please put a number on "so many" and provide documentation to support that
> number.


My reaction as well.

While we are at it, if we want to get a sense of how much of the total
"Registry inaccuracy" is due to undocumented (grey or black market)
transfers, those numbers would be extraordinarily useful in seeing the
problem statement clearly.

No clue how to gauge these numbers however!

-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel

>
> Owen
>
> On Jun 10, 2014, at 14:43 , Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>
> wrote:
>
> Yes some blocks have been returned and that is a good thing.  My question
> for your first point then is why are so many transfers (in this region) of
> resources happening outside of ARIN and the “Transfers to Specified
> Recipients” policy (or other applicable ARIN policies)?  After all I think
> we would get a near unanimous consensus that when the database doesn’t get
> updated after a transfer it is a negative thing?  So it is not desirable for
> transfers to take place outside of ARIN but it keeps happening anyway.  Why?
>
> Steven Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099- Office
>
> <image001.jpg>℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>         Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
> From: McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:24 PM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Cc: elvis at velea.eu; arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Steven Ryerse
> <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
> Yes I agree it should have happened years ago and I agree that an outside
> marketplace already exists, but it isn't too late for ARIN to engage and
> embrace the new marketplace.
>
>
>
> They have embraced it, fully:
>
> https://arin.net/resources/request/transfers_8_3.html
>
>
>
>
>  I certainly do understand why those large Legacy holders would just watch
> and wait to see what happened in the marketplace once all of the RIRs run
> out of resources. It is in their interest to do so.
>
>
>
> but there have been cases of good net-citizenship where entities have
> returned large blocks (even entire /8's) in recent years.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
>
>
> Steven Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099- Office
>
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>                      Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Elvis Velea
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:40 PM
> To: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
> On 10/06/14 22:15, lar at mwtcorp.net wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:11:15 +0000
>>  Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>>> Get used to it because even if this Community doesn’t relent and ease
>>> up on needs requirements, the marketplace will take up the slack
>>> outside of ARIN - and a 2nd (or more) defacto marketplace will be
>>> created.  It is inevitable and short of a law being past you and I
>>> can’t stop it.  As you probably know this is already happening with
>>> the IP brokers out there and I could easily see another RIR who is
>>> out of resources joining up with significant 3rd party brokers to
>>> fill IPv4 needs at market prices worldwide. There is another supply
>>> of IPv4 resources out there in the form of all those Legacy /8’s that
>>> were given out many years ago, and I suspect that demand will bring
>>> some of those resources to market.  That supply could defer switching
>>> to IPv6 for years and not everyone likes IPv6.
>>>
>>
>> Then maybe the discussion we should be having is how to reclaim
>> un-needed IPV4 space.
>
> this discussion should have happened 10 years ago. Now, it's too late.
>
> Everyone knows that IP addresses are worth a buck or two.. The marketplace
> exists and at least 3 RIRs acknowledge it and their communities have built
> policies for it. Would you give them up if you would be having a (large)
> number of unused IPs; IPs that may bring your organization the money needed
> to invest in new equipment and skills and migrate to IPv6 :)
>
> cheers,
> elvis
>
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