[arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers

[McTim]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com
> wrote:

>  If I understood your comment below, you are now agreeable to remove SOME
> of the needs tests on only a /24.  I suppose that is a change but not much
> of one at all and it will only help the smallest of the needs out there
> MAYBE if they can pass whatever your relaxed needs test would be.  Yes
> maybe that is a slight shift in your position but pretty negligible
>

it's a huge paradigm shift for me.



>  and NOT IMHO what is really needed.
>


it is not at all what is needed for your org, certainly.




>
>
> If this was 10 or 15 years ago and I was in a position to block an
> allocation request of yours for say a /22 that you really needed, I doubt
> you would be very happy if I told you that you could only have a /24 and
> then only if you could pass some arbitrary test that I came up with.  In
> the real world folks need real allocations and current policy stands in the
> way.
>



If it was 10-15 years ago and I NEEDED it, I could have shown that easily
and gotten my /whatever.


10-15 years ago i was a RIR hostmaster.  The bar is NOT very high to show
need, it certainly wasn't then, and I don't think it has gone up!








>
>
> *Steven Ryerse*
>
> *President*
>
> *100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338*
>
> *770.656.1460 <770.656.1460> - Cell*
>
> *770.399.9099 <770.399.9099>- Office*
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse
> Networks, Inc.
>
>         Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
>
> *From:* McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 10, 2014 3:30 PM
>
> *To:* Steven Ryerse
> *Cc:* Owen DeLong; Matthew Kaufman; arin-ppml at arin.net
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
>
>
> Is is indeed a significant shift in my position.
>
> I think that is something you should recognise.
>
> I'm all for giving small orgs the space they need, which seems to be what
> you want.  However, ido not believe that this policyt does that for you, or
> indeed for anyone in a way that is cheaper than getting the space from the
> RIR.
>
>  --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Steven Ryerse <
> SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>
> Wow!  A whole /24 – that’s pretty generous of you!  What a large
> compromise that is .  .  .  .
>
>
>
> *Steven Ryerse*
>
> *President*
>
> *100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338*
>
> *770.656.1460 <770.656.1460> - Cell*
>
> *770.399.9099 <770.399.9099>- Office*
>
>
>
> [image: Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse
> Networks, Inc.
>
>         Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
>
>
> *From:* McTim [mailto:dogwallah at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 10, 2014 2:29 PM
> *To:* Steven Ryerse
> *Cc:* Owen DeLong; Matthew Kaufman; arin-ppml at arin.net
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
>
>
> Hi Steven,
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Steven Ryerse <
> SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> wrote:
>
> There are several folks (like me) who want to ditch the needs test and
> there are several folks who don't want to ditch them.  I take it your
> position is that the folks who want to keep needs tests should somehow
> prevail in this argument without much or any change,  and those of us who
> wish to ditch them should just accept the status quo with needs tests. In
> other words you win and we lose!
>
> I saw a lot of folks comment here recently who want to at least loosen
> needs tests on the smaller block sizes, many many more than I've ever seen
> before.  Since it is obvious a sizable portion of this community desires a
> change toward loosening policies, why is it that you persist in standing in
> the way of compromise?
>
>
>
> As for me, I think relaxing (not eliminating needs assessment at a /24
> boundary is plenty of compromise.
>
> See Andrew Dul's most recent mail for possible scenario's.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> McTim
> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
> indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
>
>
> There comes a time when fair is fair - and small organizations are
> routinely discriminated against because of our small size and not so deep
> pockets.  There is a lot of anger out there over the unfairness of these
> existing policies.  It should be just as easy for us to get resources as it
> was for T-Mobile and others.  I call on all members of this community to at
> least come to a compromise.  After all the world hasn't ended for RIPE with
> their changes - and it won't end here either if fairness is put back into
> the policies so that small organizations can get the resources they need
> too!
>
>
> Steven Ryerse
> President
> 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
> www.eclipse-networks.com
> 770.656.1460 - Cell
> 770.399.9099- Office
>
> ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
>                      Conquering Complex Networks℠
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On
> Behalf Of Owen DeLong
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:25 PM
> To: Matthew Kaufman
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] About needs basis in 8.3 transfers
>
> >
>
> > Matthew Kaufman
> >
> > ps. I'd also note that "policy that expresses the general intent of the
> community" may in fact *be* policy that lets post-runout transfers be
> performed without a needs test, as "the community" consists of a lot more
> than "Owen”.
>
> Indeed, it does. However, many people have also repeatedly stood up in
> defense of needs basis, so singling me out as if I am the lone supporter of
> preserving needs basis is as specious as many of your other arguments.
>
> Owen
>
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML at arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact info at arin.net if you experience any issues.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140610/579b824f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1468 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20140610/579b824f/attachment.jpg>