[arin-ppml] 2014-2 8.4 Anti-flip Language
billdarte at gmail.com
Mon Feb 24 21:12:53 EST 2014
Sure, I think I agreed with you....but it remains in my mind a stop-gap (or
should be) until such time the baking is complete and too much emphasis on
free-market transfers simply lowers the oven temperature....
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:23 PM, George Herbert <george.herbert at gmail.com>wrote:
> I object to the viewpoint that we should use policy to confuse things so
> that IPv6 is more attractive sooner. There are systemic risks with IPv4
> runout and inflexibility prior to IPv6 being fully baked in the
> works-for-everyone sense. The time to have made those adjustments was 2008
> or so, not now.
> If we're going to go back to recent history for economic lessons, the Fed
> letting Lehman Brothers crash is a good one. They were trying to make a
> couple of points, too, but the collateral damage nearly caused a
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> This, too.
>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Bill Darte <billdarte at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'll not answer for Owen, but your question prompts me to say that the
>> transfer market is not a goodness. It was, in my mind, a reasonable yet
>> distasteful stop gap on the way toward a once again more unified protocol
>> environment...to wit.. IPv6.
>> My market theory suggest that transfer market at its free-est and most
>> open deters and confuses the way forward. The purpose of standards is to
>> eliminate confusion and choices which require understanding investment
>> options and application consequences. While standards have their downside,
>> one of them is not those elements of marketplace choice.
>> The more options existing the more confused. Investment=legacy.
>> End-users must predict and interpret, making decisions that may come back
>> to haunt. Developers delay their innovation in order to better understand
>> whether they're investing in a blind technology. Transport providers must
>> deploy and support more complicated configurations with their limited
>> funds, inevitably satisfying some an thwarting others.
>> Would that the transfer market and all efforts to prolong IPv4 come to an
>> end quickly IMO.
>> End of soapbox
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:13 AM, John Curran <jcurran at arin.net> wrote:
>>> On Feb 24, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>> > On Feb 23, 2014, at 6:32 PM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
>>> >> ...
>>> >> I've been thinking about this maybe the restrictions for
>>> anti-flipping don't belong in section 8 at all. Maybe they belong in
>>> section 4 as they are intended to protect the ARIN IPv4 free pool.
>>> > I disagree. I don't want to see flipping become a tool for speculation
>>> in the market post-exhaustion, any more than I want to see it become a tool
>>> for draining the free pool. In fact, I think that the former might be
>>> significantly more harmful than the latter at this point.
>>> Owen -
>>> Could you elaborate your thoughts regarding the harm that might occur?
>>> I believe that folks understand risks associated with
>>> sudden/unexpected IPv4 free
>>> pool depletion, but you are suggesting that liquidity itself in the
>>> IPv4 transfer
>>> market is harmful. As that is neither obvious nor aligned with most
>>> market theory,
>>> it would be best for you to elaborate your thoughts some on that
>>> John Curran
>>> President and CEO
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> -george william herbert
> george.herbert at gmail.com
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