[arin-ppml] support for 2014-1 (out of region use)

Jeffrey Lyon jeffrey.lyon at blacklotus.net
Mon Feb 10 18:06:16 EST 2014


I am not referencing policy, but the auto-template ARIN sent me during
our last resource request explicitly stated no out of region use which
forced us to register as RIPE LIR for a single out of country POP.

Thanks, Jeff

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:56 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> wrote:
> On 2/10/14, 15:31 , David Huberman wrote:
>>> Your second argument is that the staff already has all the tools it needs
>>> to do what is in section X.1.
>>> This is not something the staff report said to us in its assessment,
>>> however, so I would discount that.
>> You can discount it, but I respectfully say I'm right :)  I did do this,
>> on the front lines, for 10 years, and Leslie and I developed ALL of the
>> fraud protocols.
>>> You main argument, therefore is that "out-of-region requestors [are]
>>> abusing the policies" and  "we need to
>>> draft text that significantly and materially helps ARIN staff fight fraud
>>> from out-of-region requestors."
>>>   Apparently you think the authorization to engage external entities to
>>> help with verification does not
>>> address that. Can you explain why?
>> I feel like I have in my first response.  X.1 is no-op because nothing
>> changes.  Staff already can and do conduct
>> these types of activities when investigating fraud.  They may not have
>> "engaged outside entities" to help with
>> investigation, but they've always had that purview (that is, with parties
>> who would be under attorney-client
>> privilege).
> For the most part I agree x.1 is basically a no-op, if you are assuming that
> out of region use has been permitted all along.  However, not everyone makes
> that assumption.  If you make the opposite assumption, that out of region
> use has never been permitted, then it absolutely isn't a no-op, its a major
> policy shift.
> In my opinion, the reason we can't make any headway on dealing with the
> issues staff has reported is the ambiguity of the status of out of region
> use has to begin with.  Hence the problem statement put forward.
> Their are those that seem to oppose any acknowledgment of out of region use
> all together.  And there solution to staff's issue is deny all out of region
> use.  On the other side, we have those refuse to acknowledge there can and
> should be any limits on out of region use.  Mix in those that think we
> shouldn't be doing anything about IPv4 policy at all. Then we have a
> quagmire that is worse than the transfer policy issues several years ago.
> Personally, I think we have to clarify out of region use before we can come
> to any rational policy discussion that deals with the issue staff has
> raised.  Again, hence the problem statement put forward.
> --
> ================================================
> David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952
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Jeffrey A. Lyon, CISSP-ISSMP
Founder, Black Lotus Communications
mobile: (757) 304-0668 | gtalk: jeffrey.lyon at gmail.com | skype: blacklotus.net

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