[arin-ppml] support for 2014-1 (out of region use)

David Farmer farmer at umn.edu
Mon Feb 10 17:56:46 EST 2014

On 2/10/14, 15:31 , David Huberman wrote:

>> Your second argument is that the staff already has all the tools it needs to do what is in section X.1.
>> This is not something the staff report said to us in its assessment, however, so I would discount that.
> You can discount it, but I respectfully say I'm right :)  I did do this, on the front lines, for 10 years, and Leslie and I developed ALL of the fraud protocols.
>> You main argument, therefore is that "out-of-region requestors [are] abusing the policies" and  "we need to
>> draft text that significantly and materially helps ARIN staff fight fraud from out-of-region requestors."
>>   Apparently you think the authorization to engage external entities to help with verification does not
>> address that. Can you explain why?
> I feel like I have in my first response.  X.1 is no-op because nothing changes.  Staff already can and do conduct
> these types of activities when investigating fraud.  They may not have "engaged outside entities" to help with
> investigation, but they've always had that purview (that is, with parties who would be under attorney-client
> privilege).

For the most part I agree x.1 is basically a no-op, if you are assuming 
that out of region use has been permitted all along.  However, not 
everyone makes that assumption.  If you make the opposite assumption, 
that out of region use has never been permitted, then it absolutely 
isn't a no-op, its a major policy shift.

In my opinion, the reason we can't make any headway on dealing with the 
issues staff has reported is the ambiguity of the status of out of 
region use has to begin with.  Hence the problem statement put forward.

Their are those that seem to oppose any acknowledgment of out of region 
use all together.  And there solution to staff's issue is deny all out 
of region use.  On the other side, we have those refuse to acknowledge 
there can and should be any limits on out of region use.  Mix in those 
that think we shouldn't be doing anything about IPv4 policy at all. 
Then we have a quagmire that is worse than the transfer policy issues 
several years ago.

Personally, I think we have to clarify out of region use before we can 
come to any rational policy discussion that deals with the issue staff 
has raised.  Again, hence the problem statement put forward.

David Farmer               Email: farmer at umn.edu
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE     Phone: 1-612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029  Cell: 1-612-812-9952

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