[arin-ppml] Internet Fairness

Mike Burns mike at iptrading.com
Mon Dec 22 15:28:06 EST 2014

Hi Rob,

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that it was you who used the word troll or 
other objectionable words.

But by pointing out what you did on a public list, you crossed the line IMO.
If you think I crossed a line calling you out, so be it, I've expressed 
myself completely on the issue.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Rob Seastrom
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 3:17 PM
To: Mike Burns
Cc: Steven Ryerse ; Rob Seastrom ; arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Internet Fairness

"Mike Burns" <mike at iptrading.com> writes:

> I'm uncomfortable with what Mr. Seastrom did there, choosing the
> example he did.
> As a community we strive to be inclusive, and one way to stifle
> conversation is to go ad hominem, even if obliquely.

The irony of being called out personally and accused of making an
ad-hominem attack for pointing out that someone's own organization is
not following a well-known BCP (for presumably valid and calculated
business reasons) is not lost on me.

> I hope we don't see more of that kind of thing on this list, nor
> language about trolls or whatnot.

Nor gratuitous red herrings insinuating that people have used language
that they never have.  Does that work for you?


> Regards,
> Mike
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Rob Seastrom
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 6:12 AM
> To: Steven Ryerse
> Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Internet Fairness
> Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com> writes:
>> Well Rob, we would have both of our name servers on topologically
>> distinct networks but ARIN denied our small IPv4 allocation request!
> Topologically distinct means not sharing facilities or upstreams.
> Think off-site, on the other coast, or out-of-country, on networks not
> run by you.  You are not kept from following these BCPs by
> difficulties in your interface with ARIN.  It's a business decision
> that it's too hard to do the right thing so you'll try and squeak by
> with the absolute minimum.
>> You proved my point that small Orgs have it tougher than larger ones
>> getting resources.
> Actually not, and I offered a specific counterexample to your
> assertion that small organizations do not have the resources to
> participate in the RIR or operator community, which you chose not to
> quote.
> -r
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