[arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

Steven Ryerse SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com
Mon Dec 15 13:49:57 EST 2014


I saw folks in this Community when discussing a policy proposal earlier this year – advocating for needs testing on all IPv6 allocations. I wanted to scream when I read it!

As far as the Internet being different today, ARINs Mission doesn’t go out the window because of Internet changes.

Steven Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
770.656.1460 - Cell
770.399.9099- Office

[Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
        Conquering Complex Networks℠

From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Kargel
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:12 PM
To: arin-ppml at arin.net
Subject: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use


The internet is a different place now and things change and evolve over time.  If a modern day entrepreneur needed IP space they would have little or no problem finding all the IPv6 space they need at little or no cost and with virtually no trouble.
When Jobs and Wozniak were starting up IPV4 was a different animal.
Kevin


From: arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net> [mailto:arin-ppml-bounces at arin.net] On Behalf Of Steven Ryerse
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:16 AM
To: Bill Darte
Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

By that definition, I wonder if Jobs and Wozniak needed IP resources today for their garage - could they get them?  Whether you like what they did or not they certainly have advanced the Internet.  And if John and Sue are working in their garage today and need a /24 or a /22 from ARIN to further the Internet, can they get them?  With today’s policies – probably not as they might not have a business plan yet, or signed contract with contractors, or gotten their funding - or any other measure of need that is currently indoctrinated in policy.  What a shame!


Steven Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
www.eclipse-networks.com<http://www.eclipse-networks.com>
770.656.1460 - Cell
770.399.9099- Office

[Description: Description: Eclipse Networks Logo_small.png]℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
        Conquering Complex Networks℠

From: Bill Darte [mailto:billdarte at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: Jo Rhett; arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

Steven Ryerse said:
In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing the Internet.  Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from getting resources?  How does that advance the Internet?

The community through ARIN is ensuring that the distribution of v4 IP addresses are according to its policies which have been and should continue to be needs-based..IMO.  They are not 'caught up' in the sense that they cannot proceed...ndeed, they are doing the precise business that policy and its mission calls for.  That some orgs that cannot meet the needs hurdle are denied...does not mean that others who truly have a need are not serviced.  Those with clear need advance the Internet and do so demonstrably...whereas those without a demonstrable need MAY advance the Internet as well, but its a greater risk to the community and one which the community has chosen to forgo.

Bill Darte

On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>> wrote:
Though it has been a few months since I made those comments, I appreciate your feedback.  Your description of "walk away with someone else’s belongings" seems to indicate that somehow the use of the Internet and the IP addresses that make the use of the Internet possible, is owned by ARIN or this Community or maybe ARIN and this Community.

I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of Jon Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet.  When I read the original Mission Statement for ARIN or even the current one, I don't see that "needs" are more important than the actual mission of advancement and allocation.  Good stewardship should be practiced but NOT to the detriment of the mission of advancement and allocation.

In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of advancing the Internet.  Regardless of your personal definition of need, why is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now precluded from getting resources?  How does that advance the Internet?  I never met Jon Postel but from what I've heard about him, I suspect he would frown on some of the current policies regarding needs.  My comments below and others I have made are intended to try to bring some balance into the discussion and my hope is that some day in the near future that will happen.  I certainly don't desire there be no rules at all but the very loose rules followed by Jon Postel worked pretty well advancing the Internet.  I think we could loosen the current policies like has been done in other regions and it would have a positive outcome.  My two cents.

Steven Ryerse
President
100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA  30338
www.eclipse-networks.com<http://www.eclipse-networks.com>
770.656.1460<tel:770.656.1460> - Cell
770.399.9099<tel:770.399.9099>- Office

℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc.
                     Conquering Complex Networks℠

-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Rhett [mailto:jrhett at netconsonance.com<mailto:jrhett at netconsonance.com>]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: arin-ppml at arin.net<mailto:arin-ppml at arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use

On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse <SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com<mailto:SRyerse at eclipse-networks.com>> wrote:
> If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled.  I think it is important to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud second or third or fifth or whatever.  We could stop all fraud by stopping all allocations but of course that makes no sense.  I would also point out that even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is still being fulfilled.

I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people with non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification. That is ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread fraud occurs and ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that ARIN would not be doing their job.

> Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be significantly reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent requests.

Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone else’s belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement is true without making any sense at all.

> I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell you that they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the current arbitrary (and they are arbitrary) policy.

I disagree completely. ARIN’s role is to satisfy needs-based requests. Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job.

The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules at all. Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy.

--
Jo Rhett
+1 (415) 999-1798<tel:%2B1%20%28415%29%20999-1798>
Skype: jorhett
Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and internet projects.

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